In my discussion with those that are not of the dispensational persuasion is that sometimes the posttribbers tend to be partners with Jewish Wannabes or are Jewish Wannabes. My wife is a posttribber and she is not a Jewish Wannabe. She may even be right in her views concerning the timing of the rapture. Essentially what I am saying is that this dispie separates the prophecies regarding Israel from the scriptures that refer to the body of Christ.  The Charts explaining these distinctions are at: The Masters List id68.html Not seeing these distinctions result in seeing Matthew 24 and chapters four through twenty of Revelation as pertaining both to Israel and the Church during Jacob's Trouble/The Tribulation. (Jeremiah 30:7) Those that don't distinguish between the Body of Christ/The Mysteries and Israel tend to apply scriptures to both church and Israel simultaneously or the church instead of Israel, which is replacement Theology. The Jewish Wannabe is not always sympathetic to the Jew and often replaces the physical and spiritual Jew. Now i know posttribbers that have managed to keep away from this tendency to look like a Jew, but I think they are in the minority. The posttribber/Jewish Wannabes sometimes become Eschaholics as a result. In other words, because they think Revelation is talking about them from front to back they obsess in trying to decipher its meanings, when the majority of the meanings might be, 'closed up and sealed till the time of the end' (Daniel 12:9) One sure sign of obsession is when these folks are willing to overlook and wink at those that deny the essentials of the faith, i.e., The Trinity of God (God in Three Persons), Salvation by Grace through faith in Jesus. (Ephesians 2:6;Acts 16:31), to join forces with heretics that agree with them on the timing of the rapture. What has become more important to them is that one believes in posttrib rather than the essentials of the faith. One can argue that the timing of the rapture is important, though I don't find that argument in scripture. But relatively speaking it is indisputable that the Trinity and Salvation by Grace through faith in Christ are eternally more important than when exactly Christ is coming back. By what they devote their lives to you would think the scripture says, 'Believe in the proper timing of the rapture and you will be saved.' Sure talking about the future gets everyones attention and is great, if quantity of dialogue on the minor points is what your ultimate goal is. Jerry Springer has plenty to talk about but his morals and priorities are definitely in quesion.   Feel free to discuss it but don't think that every Christian ought to.  Despite when you think the Lord is coming back, one important thing is to believe He is still coming back and to be ready. The Ultimate deception this side of the Tribulation may be trying to determine and prove the timing of the rapture rather than getting ready. And Being Ready is not about exact eschatology it is about Faith, Behaviour, Theology and Soteriology. (Philippians 4; Ephesians 6) 1 John Three says: "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, WHEN HE SHALL APPEAR, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure." Notice, that it doesn't say 'that he already appeared' OR when he appears before, in the middle or at the end of the Tribulation. It says When He Shall Appear, we shall be like him...And Every Man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. The hope of a FUTURE COMING purifies us.   Preterists have lost this hope because they think he has come already and we missed it. Preterists must make figurative the scriptures in order to believe this. "Come in Like Manner as you saw him go' (Acts 1:11), doesn't mean what it says anymore "Every Eye Shall See Him" (Revelation 1:3), doesn't mean what it says anymore for the Preterist. However, pre, mid and post Christians believe in the plain sense of these scriptures. Christians (those that believe in the essentials), that also have the hope of Christ coming back, purifieth themselves as Christ is pure. Still a pre, mid and posttribber that doesn't know and believe who Christ is and know that salvation is by grace through faith is just as condemned as condemned can be. Many Pretribbers are not off the hook either. Some Pretribbers are eschaholics also. They sometimes put way too much emphasis on the timing of the rapture as well. One that deserves our condemnation is Tim LaHaye, who is really a Christian Psychologist but must think that because he has a PHD in something (not eschatological) , that this makes him an expert in eschatology. He has joined up with Jerry Jenkins who I think is more of a writer than anything else. My wife and I started watching these movies when we finally figured out that Lahaye was leaving people hanging in each movie so that they would go to the next movie and buy all the side junk that he sells without any shame. He will answer to the Lord for this. So my advice to you is don't be an eschaholic, be on fire for Jesus and ready for his future coming whenever that is. "Oh lord, you’re beautiful, Your face is all I see, For when your eyes are on this child, Your grace abounds to me. Oh lord, you’re beautiful, Your face is all I see, For when your eyes are on this child, Your grace abounds to me. I want to take your word and shine it all around. But first help me to just, live it lord. And when I’m doing well, help me to never seek a crown. For my reward is giving glory to you. Oh lord, please light the fire, That once burned bright and clean. Replace the lamp of my first love, That burns with holy fear. I want to take your word and shine it all around. But first help me to just, live it lord. And when I’m doing well, help me to never seek a crown. For my reward is giving glory to you. Oh lord, you’re beautiful, Your face is all I see, For when your eyes are on this child, Your grace abounds to me. Oh lord, you’re beautiful, Your face is all I see, For when your eyes are on this child, Your grace abounds to me." (Oh Lord You're Beautiful, Keith Green) There are plenty of major points that we could be talking about. There are Catholics, Muslims, Cultists etc that would like nothing better than Real Christians debating eschatological points while they proselityze.  BJ Maxwell Revised 09/29/2006