Body of Christ versus Israel

Paul, was speaking of union but was not making our union with our spouses a complete representation of our union with Him.

One flesh, speaks more completely of a body than it does a bride.

'For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.' (Ephesians 5)

This is speaking of a body not specifically a bride.

This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. (Ephesians 5)

Though a marriage is 'becoming one', marriage is only representing one aspect of a union with Christ, the Lamb or Jehovah.

Usually, who specifically one is uniting with defines who they are.

For example: Union with the groom=Believing Israel. -Gospels

Union with the Head=The Body of Christ. (Ephesians 2)

Though a bride/bridegroom relationship is part of the higher and more encompassing relationship with Christ, it is only one aspect.

An apple doesn't sum up the whole apple tree, though it helps explain it.

Though it could be argued that a bride/bridegroom relationship is an aspect of union with God, it cannot be argued that the bride in the gospels was the same as the bigger body preached by the apostle Paul.

The Bride in the gospels was 'Jew Only' (Matthew 10:5ff)

The Body in the epistles was 'Jew and Gentile' (Ephesians 2:14-17)

The Body requires equality and diversity amongst its members a bride doesn't.

This is another reason why the Church is not Israel, but spiritually Israel, i.e., the believing Jew is spiritually part of the Church/Body of Christ.

2 I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy. I promised you to one husband, to Christ, so that I might present you as a pure virgin to him. (2 Corinthians 11)

'As' something else doesn't equal something else.

BJ Maxwell 07/25/2006

The Church is also called Christ's body because not only is there a union between God and Jew but also between Jew and Gentile thus creating diversity.

This diversity wasn't present when it was only Jewish believers and called a bride.

"These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: "Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. 6 Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel." (Matthew 10)

That is not This:

"Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called "uncircumcised" by those who call themselves "the circumcision" (that done in the body by the hands of men)-- 12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.

14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility." (Ephesians 2)

Clearly here the body is when Jew and Gentile become One, and this wasn't yet a reality in the gospels.

In the scripture passage above it defines what constitutes a body (Jew and Gentile in union with Christ) and also what was abolished at the formation of the body, which is, "the law with its commandments and regulations", and makes no distinction between the moral law and the ceremonial law here.

But some may think that the only result of abolishing the law in this newly formed body is lawlessness.

God Forbid! , we now have a higher law, which is Love.

Praise God!!!!!!!!!!!!

The passage below explains how the body functions in Love and this is what makes us mature and dependent on the Head.

"From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work." (Ephesians 4)

"It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, 12 to prepare God's people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. 14 Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming. 15 Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ. 16 From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work." (Ephesians 4)

Is it loving to sleep with someone elses wife?

Not only is it unloving to the husband but it is unloving to whoever would try this because then they would be taking their life into their own hands, because then the husband would have to kill them.

Is it unloving for the body of Christ to not strictly adhere to the Sabbath and all its requirements?

No, the sabbath was for man, more specifically for Israel. (Exodus 36)

Is it loving myself to set apart a day for rest?

Of course, but it does not matter which day that is and my obligation is not required for my justification.

Still, if the church is part of Israel or there is no difference between the body and the bride, then the argument could possibly be made for keeping the Sabbath and the other laws as one 'under the law.'

"As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. "Good teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?" 18 "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone. 19 You know the commandments: 'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, do not defraud, honor your father and mother.'" 20 "Teacher," he declared, "all these I have kept since I was a boy." 21 Jesus looked at him and loved him. "One thing you lack," he said. "Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." (Mark 10)

Here this mans concept of Christ affected his view of how to attain eternal life.

If there is no new information in the epistles to this account, then we would have to ask why Christ said, 'no one is good, except God alone' AND 'You Know the commandments...'

'Attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ' is something that will take time. In the meantime Jew and Gentile sometimes know him differently, one group as king another as the Head, others as 'Good master'.

You don't see this kind of diversity in unity in the gospels or the book of Revelation.

In the Gospels, Christ's relationship to Israel is as King or the Lamb, in the Rest of the Story, He is the Head.

As I said, the Bride can now be part of the Body in the way an apple is part of an apple tree, but the apple isn't the whole apple tree and in the future will have a different physical destiny than the apple tree.

Of course believing Israel is the bride and could be part of the body but only the body represents Jew and Gentile becoming One with Christ.

With the bride, the union is just between God and Jew, in the body the union is between God and both the Jew and Gentile, so the unity is vertical and horizontal within the body.

But we cannot mix metaphors because the apple still has a distinct purpose from the apple tree. (Ezekiel 36; Romans 11:26-32)

Mixing metaphors only confuses the issues.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. (KJV)

Still, the bride of Christ better represents the union between God and believing Israel, not the diversity present when the middle wall of partition is broken down between Jew and Gentile.

When Israel murdered Messiah, they proved they were no better than the Gentile (Romans 11:32), and thereby made possible the formation of a body.

The sacrifice of the actual Body of Christ made the body of Christ possible.

'by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in this one body '

The destroying of the middle wall of partition which was, 'the law with its commandments and regulations." Makes possible the following: "His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in this one body "

Insisting that this wall still exists for the Christian dooms one to applying what applied to Israel, to the church.

Bj Maxwell 07/26/2006


BJ	^Paul
It would be fine and dandy if the Gentiles/Nations mentioned here were the body of Christ but the body of Christ is composed of individuals not Nations and the folks mentioned in this chapter are not assimilated into Israel , they are clearly subservient to Israel. "I will set a sign among them, and I will send some of those who survive to the nations--to Tarshish, to the Libyans and Lydians (famous as archers), to Tubal and Greece, and to the distant islands that have not heard of my fame or seen my glory. They will proclaim my glory among the nations. 20 And they will bring all your brothers, from all the nations, to my holy mountain in Jerusalem as an offering to the Lord--on horses, in chariots and wagons, and on mules and camels," says the Lord. "They will bring them, as the Israelites bring their grain offerings, to the temple of the Lord in ceremonially clean vessels. 21 And I will select some of them also to be priests and Levites," says the Lord." (Isaiah 66) In this scenario the Nations are clearly subservient to Israel. "Foreigners will rebuild your walls, and their kings will serve you. Though in anger I struck you, in favor I will show you compassion. 11 Your gates will always stand open, they will never be shut, (Rev. 20) day or night, so that men may bring you the wealth of the nations-- their kings led in triumphal procession." (Isaiah 60) "And you will be called priests of the Lord, you will be named ministers of our God. You will feed on the wealth of nations, and in their riches you will boast." (Isaiah 61) This is the program that was prophesied in the OT for an Israel who accepts Messiah and the Gentiles present on earth during this time come to the Holy Mountain. This would have happened sooner had Israel accepted Messiah, but since they rejected Him, this program was delayed until the End. (Romans 11:24-27) This has nothing to do with the body of Christ where Jew and Gentile are on the same level before God in the heavenlies. Our inheritance in the body of Christ is in the heavenlies not on earth. These scriptures are speaking of a Millenium where the Gentiles/Nations come unto Mount Zion and are actually subservient to the Jews not grafted in to Israel. "In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold, out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you" (Zech. 8:23). Does one really think that we will be doing this? "He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time..Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God....25 On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there. 26 The glory and honor of the nations will be brought into it. " (Revelation 20:3; 21) During the Millenium the nations will be coming unto Israel not assimilated into Israel. This is not the body of Christ who is in the heavenlies. To think that the body of Christ is included in Isaiah 66 would go against everything having to do with the body of Christ. Believing Israel (not the church) has the physical distinction and blessings because God takes and unfaithful nation and irresistably restores them. (Ezekiel 36) So despite their unbelief, God transforms them and fulfills his promises to them. "for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable." (Romans 11:29) "Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God. 2 Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. 3 For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory." (Colossians 3) BJ Maxwell 07/19/2006 "B.J. Max" <oikonomia@...> wrote: It would be fine and dandy if the Gentiles/Nations mentioned here were the body of Christ but the body of Christ is composed of individuals not Nations and the folks mentioned in this chapter are not assimilated into Israel , they are clearly subservient to Israel. BJ: Notice who Peter is specifically writing to in this book: "Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied." (1 Peter 1) BJ: "that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem" This is not me. My feast of Tabernacles is Christ. I won't be there, I will be up in heaven playing my heavenly guitar. I being a member of the body will be where the head is, probably right above where the King is. Scriptures: "I will set a sign among them, and I will send some of those who survive to the nations--to Tarshish, to the Libyans and Lydians (famous as archers), to Tubal and Greece, and to the distant islands that have not heard of my fame or seen my glory. They will proclaim my glory among the nations. 20 And they will bring all your brothers, from all the nations, to my holy mountain in Jerusalem as an offering to the Lord--on horses, in chariots and wagons, and on mules and camels," says the Lord. "They will bring them, as the Israelites bring their grain offerings, to the temple of the Lord in ceremonially clean vessels. 21 And I will select some of them also to be priests and Levites," says the Lord." (Isaiah 66) BJ Max: In this scenario the Nations are clearly subservient to Israel. BJ: Very likely!, Lindsey brought up the Cossacks in Russia who are still riding Horses and riding chariots and wagons means that these Jews won't have to rely on Arab oil anymore. BJ: Jewish/Israelite priests possibly similar function that they had during the gospel times and before 70 AD, but prior to delay. Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. BJ: Yes, Jewish Believers will reign on earth after Jacob's Trouble. (Jeremiah 30:7) Scriptures: "Foreigners will rebuild your walls, and their kings will serve you. Though in anger I struck you, in favor I will show you compassion. 11 Your gates will always stand open, they will never be shut, (Rev. 20) day or night, so that men may bring you the wealth of the nations-- their kings led in triumphal procession." (Isaiah 60) "And you will be called priests of the Lord, you will be named ministers of our God. You will feed on the wealth of nations, and in their riches you will boast." (Isaiah 61) BJ Max: This is the program that was prophesied in the OT for an Israel who accepts Messiah and the Gentiles present on earth during this time come to the Holy Mountain. This would have happened sooner had Israel accepted Messiah, but since they rejected Him, this program was delayed until the End. (Romans 11:24-27) This has nothing to do with the body of Christ where Jew and Gentile are on the same level before God in the heavenlies. Our inheritance in the body of Christ is in the heavenlies not on earth. BJ: What part of Physical Jew in the Millenium don't you understand? BJ: So how is that significantly different than Full Preterism that denies the physical resurrection? Physical and believing Israel will be physically distinct though Spiritually one with all believers. BJ: Death is a result of corrupt blood not Flesh and Bones. The scripture says that 'flesh and blood' cannot inherit the kingdom of God, not 'flesh and bones.' If it was flesh and bones then the physically resurrected Christ could not have gotten in. BJ	Paul: We'll be in our resurrected bodies during the Millennium, but there will be people from all the nations who will have to worship GOD at HIS appointed times and who will even have to keep The Feast of Tabernacles: Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. (KJV) Paul: And what function will these Jewish/Israelite priests have compared to the resurrected believers who are also called priests who will be here on earth? Paul: Death as an enemy will eventually be destroyed, which means no more physical beings being born who will die, which means no more physical Israel at that point in time: 1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. (KJV) 1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. (KJV) me: 1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: (KJV) me: Do you believe chariots and wagons are going to make a come-back in the future? Along with mules and camels, do you think these will be the normal means of transportation at that time? Paul: No one will go on in their physical bodies forever. Either they will be resurrected immortal or transformed immortal and be in The Kingdom of GOD or they'll be permanently without. Are you saying physical Iarael will go on forever as a distinct class of beings seperated from those born into The Kingdom of GOD? me: We will be here on the earth: Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. What part of on the earth don't you understand?
BJ: wrote: "that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem" This is not me. All Flesh on earth at the time not all flesh. Still, looking at the context here it is speaking primarily of Israel: " " " " Israel has primacy here. "And they will bring all your brothers, from all the nations, to my holy mountain in Jerusalem as an offering to the Lord--on horses, in chariots and wagons, and on mules and camels," says the Lord. "They will bring them, as the Israelites bring their grain offerings, to the temple of the Lord in ceremonially clean vessels. 21 And I will select some of them also to be priests and Levites," says the Lord. 22 "As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me," declares the Lord, "so will your name and descendants endure. " This is Israel here. "In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold, out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you" (Zech. 8:23). Notice that this is Israel not the Body of Christ. These ten are relying on the Jew. Do you think Gentile Christians are going to be hanging on a Jew's skirt in the end. I'll let you do that, I'm not a skirt chaser. BJ: I won't be there, I will be up in heaven playing my heavenly guitar. I being a member of the body will be where the head is, probably right above where the King is. Jewish Believers will reign on earth after Jacob's Trouble. . Believing Jews will have power over the nations. Body of Christ will have power over the nations but BJ: So how is that significantly different than Full Preterism that denies the physical resurrection? Physical and believing Israel will be physically distinct though Spiritually one with all believers. BJ: Death is a result of corrupt blood not Flesh and Bones. The scripture says that 'flesh and blood' cannot inherit the kingdom of God, not 'flesh and bones.' If it was flesh and bones then the physically resurrected Christ could not have gotten in.	me: No, and it's not just physical Israel either. This is clearly referring to non-Israelites who will also be attending the Feast of Tabernacles. Isaiah 66 also makes it clear that all flesh will come to worship before The LORD from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another. The word "all" doesn't mean just all physical Israelites, but all mankind that is here at that time. Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. me: It won't be physical Israelites ruling on eath BJ. We will be ruling on the earth. Maybe if you get lonely you'll come and join the rest of us. Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: 27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. Paul: No one will go on in their physical bodies forever. Either they will be resurrected immortal or transformed immortal and be in The Kingdom of GOD or they'll be permanently without. Are you saying physical Iarael will go on forever as a distinct class of beings seperated from those born into The Kingdom of GOD? me: I don't understand your comparison to full preterism because I'm not saying we won't be resurrected physically with glorified bodies. But I do know the JW's teach two seperate classes - one being a heavenly and the other an earthly - and this is kind of similar to what you believe, though I know you're no more a JW than I'm a full preterist. me: I don't disagree with what you say because this is exactly what I said. Everyone will have to receive a resurrected or transformed glorified body in order to be in God's Kingdom, and this includes physical Israelites. Scripture verses taken from the KJV. Paul
Christ to be its King (Jer.23:5, Isa. 9:6,7).	Christ its living Head (Eph. 1:19-23, Col. 1:18).
The kingdom prophesied "since the world began" (Luke 1:68-70, Acts 3:21).	The body chosen in Christ before the world began, but "kept secret since the world began" (Rom. 16:25, Eph. 1:4-11, 3:5-9).
Israel to be given supremacy over the nations (Isa. 60:10-12, 61:6).	Jew and Gentile placed on the same level before God (Rom. 10:12, 11:32, Eph. 2: 16,17).
The Gentiles to be blessed through Israel's instrumentality (Gen. 22:17,18, Zech. 8:13).	The Gentiles blessed through Israel's obstinacy (Acts 13:44-46, Rom. 11:28-32).
The Gentiles to be blessed through Israel's rise (Isa. 60:1-3, Zech. 8:22,23).	The Gentiles blessed through Israel's fall (Acts 28:27,28, Rom. 11:11,12,15).
Prophecy mainly concerns nations as such (Isa. 2:4, Ezek. 37:21,22).	The mystery concerns individuals (Rom. 10:12,13, II Cor. 5:14-17).
Prophecy concerns blessings, both material and spiritual, on earth (Isa. 2:3,4, 11:1-9, etc.).	The mystery concerns "all spiritual blessings in the heavenlies" (Eph. 1:3, Col. 3:1-3).
Prophecy concerns Christ's coming to the earth (Isa. 59:20, Zech. 14:4).	The mystery explains Christ's present absence from the earth (Eph. 1:20-23, Col. 3:1-3).
In prophecy salvation by grace through faith alone is not contemplated.	Salvation by grace through faith alone lies at the very heart of the mystery (Rom. 3:21-26, 4:5, Eph. 2:8,9).
The proclamation of the prophetic program committed particularly to the twelve (Matt. 10:5-7, Acts 1:6-8, 3:19-26).	The proclamation of the mystery committed particularly to Paul (Eph. 3:1-3,8,9, Col. 1:24-27).
The prophetic program revealed through many of God's servants (Luke 1:70, II Pet. 1:21).	The mystery revealed through one man: Paul (Gal. 1:1,11,12, 2:2,7,9, Eph. 3:2,3).¹⁰
Old testament writers frequently did not understand the prophecies made known through them (Dan. 12:8-10, I Pet. 1:10-12).	Paul both understood and longed that others might understand the mystery revealed through him. (Eph. 1:15-23, 3:14-21, Col 1:9-10, 2:1-3).

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