This Message Has Partly Been Inspired By Some Things Said By 'Dr.' James Trimm:

Who Introduces Himself Here:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/messianiccatholicism/message/2133

However, This Is What I Found On A Search:

A Site Giving His Credentials With Links That Don't Work:

http://www.seekgod.ca/trimmdiploma.htm

A Site Alleging He Committed Fraud:

http://www.nazarite.net/james-trimm.html

James Is Free To Respond To These Claims.

He Supposes An Original Hebrew New Testament, And Lost Books Of the bible.

Basically Arguments For Other Inspired Works Can Often Be Refuted By:

1) Keeping In Mind That Often These Folks Refer To History Outside The Bible.

It Is An Historical Fact That Historical Accounts Contradict Each Other On Just About Everything.

What About Enoch One May Ask:

14 And to these also Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied, saying, Behold, the Lord came with ten thousands of his holy ones,

15 to execute judgment upon all, and to convict all the ungodly of all their works of ungodliness which they have ungodly wrought, and of all the hard things which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. (Jude 1)-Inspired Word Of God. (Jude)

This Prophecy Is In The book Of Enoch.

2) In Relation To The Book Of 'Enoch'

a) Referring To A Statement Of Prophecy From Enoch, Doesn't Prove the Inspiration of The Whole Book Of Enoch.

b) In The Book Of Enoch, Someone Is Referring To Enoch.

c) In The Book Of Enoch, It Calls Itself A 'Parable' More Than Once.

'And he took up his parable and said'

Especially Seeing That The Apocryphal Books Are: 'partly historical records, and partly allegorical. The religous poetry is to a large extent a paraphrase upon the Poetical and Prophetical Books of the Hebrew Canon." (The Apocrypha, Intro, )

Why Not The Other UnRecognized Books As Well?

Parable: a short allegorical story designed to illustrate or teach some truth, religious principle, or moral lesson. (Dictionary.com)

d) None Yet Have Been Able To Point To Any New Doctrines That Are Taught In The Book Of Enoch, That Makes It Beneficial For the Church Today.

e) The Book Of Enoch and the Prophecy In It Are:

Referring To The Tribulation Of Israel, Not The Church.

"1 I The words of the blessing of Enoch, wherewith he blessed the elect and righteous, who will be 2 living in the day of tribulation, when all the wicked and godless are to be removed. And he took up his parable and said,

James Trimm Also Quotes The Book Of Enoch Which Says:

"Another book which Enoch wrote for his son Methuselah
and for those who will come after him, and observe the Torah in the last days. (1 Enoch 108:1)

"21 But now, quite apart from Torah, God's way of making people righteous in his sight has been made clear - although the Torah and the Prophets give their witness to it as well - 22 and it is a righteousness that comes from God, through the faithfulness of Yeshua the Messiah, to all who continue trusting. For it makes no difference whether one is a Jew or a Gentile, 23 since all have sinned and come short of earning God's praise." (Romans 3; The Complete Jewish Bible)

AND

"Indeed, the question came up only because some men who pretended to be brothers had been sneaked in - they came in surreptitiously to spy out the freedom we have in the Messiah Yeshua, so that they might enslave us. 5 Not even for a minute did we give in to them, so that the truth of the Good News might be preserved for you." (Ibid, Galatians 2)

Also

G) There Is Something In The Ego Of The Conspiracy Theorists And/Or Elitists That Want You To Believe That Some Kind Of Cover Up Is Going On And They Can Help You Through It.

Don't Fall For It.

The Bible Says To, "not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world." (1 John 4)

People Like Closure So When

Paul Has A Vision And He Says, "And I know that this man--whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows-- 4 was caught up to paradise. He heard inexpressible things, things that man is not permitted to tell. 5 I will boast about a man like that, but I will not boast about myself, except about my weaknesses. 6 Even if I should choose to boast, I would not be a fool, because I would be speaking the truth. But I refrain, so no one will think more of me than is warranted by what I do or say. " (2 Cor. 12)

He Actually Needed A Thorn In The Flesh To Keep Him Humble After Seeing These Visions But Now They Are Allegedly For Your Viewing Pleasure At:

I Guess Now It Is All Right To 'Think More Of Paul Than is Warranted by What He Said Or Did'

Man Just Cannot Handle The Fact That More Details Haven't Been Given So They Promote A book Supposedly Written Of Pauls Vision:

http://www.comparative-religion.com/christianity/apocrypha/new-testament-apocrypha/4/5.php

There Is Nothing About Jesus From Age 12 To 30, So Lets Claim That Jesus Actually Got Some Of His Special Knowledge While He Was In India Learning About The Eastern Religions.

What About His Trip To The Americas:

The book Of Moron.

Then Some Think Judas Didn't Get A Fair Shake, So Maybe He Wrote A Book.

The Gospel Of Judas:

http://www.carm.org/lost/gospel_of_judas.htm

Then Daniel Has Visions And God Says, "4 But you, Daniel, close up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge." (Daniel 12)

Doesn't Seem Like The End Yet!

But I'm Waiting For The Movie About The New Stuff From Him, Because I Have Way Too Apocryphal Books To Read.

Seems That This Vision Of Daniel And Maybe Enoch May Be Meant For The Jews In The End.

But We Have Charlatans Promoting Them Today For A Price.

And Man Has To Come Along And Say No, God Really Meant He Wants Us To Know What Was Sealed Up.

Where Do We Draw The Line?

What About The 'Ode To Billy Joe'?

Sorry, That Was A Movie.

Is This Any Different Than God Telling Adam And Eve Not To Touch The Tree Of The Knowledge Of Good And Evil And The Serpent Coming Along And Saying:

"Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?" 2 The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.'" 4 "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. 5 "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." (Genesis 3)

Oh By The Way, It Seems Adam And Eve Didn't Get A Fair Shake Either So Here Is That Account:

http://www.carm.org/lost/adamandeve.htm

Apocrypha:

The Actual Books Are Debated Among Groups.

'Apocrypha (from the Greek word απόκρυφα meaning "those having been hidden away" are texts of uncertain authenticity or writings where the authorship is questioned. In Judeo-Christian theology , the term apocrypha refers to any collection of scriptural texts that falls outside the canon .'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocrypha

Occult : 'The word occult comes from the Latin occultus (clandestine, hidden, secret), referring to 'knowledge of the hidden'. In the medical sense it is used commonly to refer to a structure or process that is hidden, e.g. an "occult bleed."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occult

Kabbalah: 'A body of mystical teachings of rabbinical origin, often based on an esoteric interpretation of the Hebrew Scriptures.'

"Foreign conquests drove the Jewish spiritual leadership of the time the Sanhedrin to hide the knowledge and make it secret fearing that it might be misused if it fell into the wrong hands [2]. In addition, the Sanhedrin leaders were concerned that practice of Kabbalah by Jews deported by the invaders to other countries the Diaspora - unsupervised and unguided by the masters - might lead them to use the practice in wrong and forbidden ways. As a result, the Kabbalah has become secretive, forbidden and esoteric to Judaism ("Torat Ha’Sod" Hebrew : תורת הסוד) for two and a half millennia. In contemporary Orthodox Judaism, a person must be at least age 40, mature, and married to begin studying Kabbalah - a direct influence of the Sanhendrin decision to secrecy manifested over 2,500 years."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabbalah

Do You See The Common Thread In these Definitions?

You Got It, I Am One Of The Ones That Has Been Chosen Or Given Special Knowledge, Come To Me.

"any of a series of steps or stages, as in a process or course of action; a point in any scale.

"But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28 He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things--and the things that are not--to nullify the things that are, 29 so that no one may boast before him. 30 It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God--that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. 31 Therefore, as it is written: "Let him who boasts boast in the Lord." (1 Corinthians 1)

Does God Choosing 'The Foolish Things' Mean Anything And Everything Foolish Will Speak The Truth, Of Course Not, We Are Not Talking About Irrestistable Grace Here, But The Grace That Has Appeared To All Men. (Titus 2) That We Must Receive First, Before We Can Confound The Wise.

Are There Lost Books That Should Have Been Included In The Bible?

Did God Transmit His Word To His Disciples and Apostles But Screw It Up When Getting It To Us In Its Entirety?

I Don't Think So.

Creating A Conspiracy Theory Of Lost Or Banned Books Is A Ploy To Promote A Television Program Or Sell Books.

This Passover And Easter I Watched 'Jesus Of Nazareth' On The History Channel.

During The Commercials And At The End They Were Promoting A Show Called, 'Books Banned From The Bible' Or Something Like That.

Of Course There Needed To Be A Weeding Out Of Books From The Bible, Else We Would Have A Big Mess.

There Are No Lost Books And No Lost Tribes Except Spiritually Speaking And No Protestant Or Catholic Commentary Ought To Equal Or Interpret The Bible We Have either.

Once One Enters The Thought That Something Outside The Bible Is Needed To Clarify Or Add To The Bible, All Kinds Of Weird Teachings Result.

<https://cuf5.tripod.com/id89.html>

Pointing To Commanalities Between Scripture And What Others Know In General Is A Method Of Evangelism But Not Treated As Equal To Scripture.

For Instance, Paul Brought Up 'Your Own Poets' And 'We Are His Offspring' To Refer To One Of Their Greek Thinkers. "For we are also his offspring--the first half of the fifth line, word for word, of an astronomical poem of Aratus, a Greek countryman of the apostle, and his predecessor by about three centuries. But, as he hints, the same sentiment is to be found in other Greek poets. They meant it doubtless in a pantheistic sense; but the truth which it expresses the apostle turns to his own purpose--to teach a pure, personal, spiritual Theism."

http://bible.crosswalk.com/Commentaries/JamiesonFaussetBrown/jfb.cgi?book=ac&chapter=17#Ac17_28 <http://bible.crosswalk.com/Commentaries/JamiesonFaussetBrown/jfb.cgi?book=ac&chapter=17

This Was A Way To Get Their Attention To Then Go Into The Gospel.

What The Greeks May Have Sometimes Stumbled On Through General Revelation (Romans 1:20), Paul Had The Details On.

But He Never Treated What They Said As The Gospel Truth, Though Sometimes It Was Truth.

Commentary Is Good To Color or Confirm What The Scripture Plainly Teaches But Should Not Be Used To Subvert What We Have.

Do We Have What We Need In Our Present Scripture, Or Do We Need To Materially Sufficient, Catechism, The Hidden Books, Kabbalah, Occult, Seminaries...?

You Be The Judge,

"25 Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written." (John 21)

"I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. 27 As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit--just as it has taught you, remain in him." (1 John 2)

"13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life." (1 Jn. 5)

Do These Additional Works Give You Peace and Security Or Do They Just Create More Confusion And Insecurity, And Dependence On the Wise Ones?

There May Be Some Truth In These Works, Greek Philosophy, The Zorastrianism Of The Magi, But Truth In Need Of An Upgrade Doesn't Equal Gospel Truth So Let Us Never Put These Things On An Equal Par With Scripture Unless We Have A Good Reason To Do So.

Bj Maxwell

04/16/2007

Copyright ©

As far as the so called lost books are concerned, when talking to those that have what is typically seen as peculiar beliefs, I find that there needs to be an agreement on what books
are inspired and what books are not.

How can two come to the same conclusion if one is only using the bible, in its accepted form and the other is using the book of
Mormon or some other book?

There has to be some kind of test within scripture itself to
determine whether something is of God or not.

For instance, there are those that refer to the time of Jesus
between the age of 12 and thirty. Some say that he went to India and even had quite a temper.

How should I determine the truth or inspiration of such claims?

One cannot go outside scripture to determine scriptures
authenticity, can they?

Bob quoted the scripture in First John that says we have the Holy Spirit to teach us all things.

Did God inspire more books than the bible presently contains but forget to include or expect us to hunt the rest of the inspired books down?

If God went to such measures to get his word out why wouldn't he make certain that we got all those words?

Catholics and Jews that rely on more than the accepted books can surely come up with some interesting conclusions.

But determining what is inspired and what is not should be the first step in constructive dialogue.

It is difficult for me to see a need for more than what we already have. (2 Timothy 3:16,17)

I fail to see the purpose of Paul saying that "All Scripture' is inspired by God and profitable for teaching....so that the man of God may be thoroughly furnished unto every good work", but then always not knowing whether we have 'All Scripture'.

It is also difficult for me to see that God would go to such great lengths to communicate truth to the original followers but then neglect to get the whole truth to us.

This is like getting midstream then not paddling anymore.

Just look at Enoch, there are over hundred chapters in it.

How in God's name can one go through each book determining its divine inspiration?

I guess reading the reasoning of those that have already researched the subject is a good start.

The following are quotes, then below that the links to the whole article.

Here they are:

"One final thought, according to Dr. Denny Petrillo of the Bear Valley Bible Institue of Denver:

"The New Testament (writers) distinguished inspired writings from uninspired (writings) by the word "graphe." For example "all scripture (graphe) is inspired..."(2 Tim. 3:16). Paul calls this "graphe" "sacred writings" in 2 Tim. 3:15. Neither Paul nor any other New Testament writer ever calls any other writings "graphe." In Acts 17 the "Athenian poets" and in Titus 1 the "Cretan prophets" are simply quotes from known writings of the day, clearly not to be considered inspired."

http://www.scripturessay.com/q362a.html


"The New Testament and the Apocrypha. There may be New Testament allusions to the Apocrypha, but not once is there a definite quotation from any Apocrypha book accepted by the Roman Catholic church. There are allusions to Pseudepigraphical books (false writings) that are rejected by Roman Catholics as
well as Protestants, such as the Bodily Assumption of Moses (Jude 9) and the Book of Enoch (Jude 14-15). There are also citations from Pagan poets and philosophers (Acts 17:28; 1 Cor. 15:33; Titus 1:12). None of these sources are cited as Scripture, nor with authority."

http://www.ankerberg.com/Articles/theological-dictionary/TD0602W1.htm

The following test seems pretty good for determining inspiration.

However, I have a few of my own that I will add after this.

Though, I am quoting from non biblical sources, I will provide the scripture that shows that the following test is scriptural.

From 'New Evidence That Demands a Verdict' Unger's Bible Dictionary,

"while granting that the Old Testament apocryphal books do have some value, cites four reasons for excluding them from the Hebrew canon:

1) They abound in historical and geographical inaccuracies and
anachronisms.

2) They teach doctrines that are false and foster practices that are at variance with inspired scripture.

3)They resort to literary types and display an artificiality of
subject matter and styling out of keeping with inspired scripture.

4)They lack the distinctive elements that give genuine Scripture its divine character, such as prophetic power and poetic and religious feeling." (Unger, NUBD, 85)

Though Jude quotes the book of Enoch, does that mean that the book from front to back is inspired?

My Wife, tells me that wiccan groups use the book of Enoch
frequently.

Catholics also refer to the book of Maccabees, to prove purgatory and praying for the dead.

However, is Maccabees inspired or just a good historical account?

Also, quoting from Macabees assumes that the death, descension and ascension of Christ later on didn't do anything to change the lower parts of the earth. (1 Peter 3; Ephesians 4). The New Testament also teaches that there is no purgatory. (Philippians 1)

All of these points are scriptural because God doesn't contradict himself and he does not lie. (John 14:6;Titus 1:2; Hebrews 6:18)

Also when I read a book like the book of Mormon, it is so silly that I cannot believe that anyone would think it is inspired.

In fact when the book of Mormon plagiarizes twelve chapters from the book of Isaiah in Elizabethan English, then I know something is wrong.

BJ Maxwell

Revised: