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Christianity Under Fire

Wanna Know Some Secrets?
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Resistance Is Futile!
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Pope Apologizes For Telling the Truth
Catholic Catechism Paves the Way For Evolution
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Three Column Chart
Ultra Dispensationalism: Scriptural or Not?
Group Think or Whosoever Will?
Chronological Chart of New Testament
You Might Be A Closet Dispie If:
Body of Christ versus Israel
The Mark of the Beast: Is it Literal?
You Know You're A Preterist If:
You Know You're a Preterist if: Part Three
The Comings of Christ: The How, When and Where
Groupthink and Cliques in the Church
Focus on the Family or on God
Cult Aware
Open Door Fellowship OR Come As We Are Ministries?
Transubstantiation or Unsubstantiated: If The Plain Sense Makes Sense...
DaVinci Code: Was Christ's Divinity and the Bible invented at the Council of Nicea?
Plain Sense Interpretation/P'shat: Christs Comings
Isaiah 53: Human Sacrifice?
Isaiah 53: Christ Has Risen!!
Who Hath Believed Our Report?
Isaiah 53: Christ Our Passover Lamb
Isaiah 53: Messianic Prophecies Refuted?
Chart comparing Israel to Messiah
Isaiah 53: The Suffering Messiah
Bible Chart: Does the Bible conflict on Salvation Messages?
Christs Coming and Time Gaps
Got Charts!
Are There Two Programs?
When Did the Church Begin?
When Did the Church Begin Pt. 2
Is America Cursed?
How and Why Christianity is Under Fire
Was Mary a Perpetual Virgin?
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Tribulation or Jacob's Trouble?
Jewish Wannabes and the Holidays
Christmas Under Fire: When Christians Attack
Is Celebrating Christmas Scriptural?
Was Iraq a Just War?
Category 7: The End of the World
If It Believes, Then Waddles and Quacks like a Christian it is a....
Why Homosexuality Should Be Confronted and Exposed
The Doctrine Of Eternal Security-Can You Lose Your Salvation?
Does the Soul Sleep?
Did Jews Kill Jesus?...Hear What Some Jews Have to Say
Some Unscriptural Teachings of the Catholic Church
Arguments That Catholics Use
Pantribulationism: Are There Two Programs Going On?
Before and After
Pantribulationism: What A Day That Will Be!!!!
Definite Article Theology: The Way
Pantribulationism: Extrabiblical Nonsense
My Old Ship, the USS Shreveport Assisting Hurricane Victims
Pantribulationism: Should I Stay or Should I Go?
Trinity of God and Trichotomy of man: Definite Article Theology
Definite Article Theology
Pantribulationism: Blessed Hope and Glorious Appearing
Pantribulationism: The Departure
Pantribulationism: It will all pan out in the end
Straining Out Gnats, Majoring on the Minors
Jewish Wannabes and Eschaholics
When Jewish Wannabes Attack What They Don't Understand
How Jewish Wannabes Attack and How to Identify Them
Historical Method and Homosexuality
If the Plain Sense Makes Sense: Christ's Coming
If the Plain Sense Makes Sense: Evolution
The Silliness of Jack Chick
Inspirational and Patriotic Songs
Communism and Islam -vs- the Faith of America's Founding Fathers
Bridging the Generation Gap
Wrongly Dividing the Word of Truth
Let's Worship the Lord
Faith Under Fire Television Show and Website
Faith Under Fire/Do We Worship the Same God?
Arrogant or Convinced?
Warning Signs of Dispensationalism?
Good News: How To Fight Terrorism
Prophecies Yet To Be Fulfilled: Zechariah 12:10-14
Are You Happy?
When Jewish Wannabes Attack the Bible
Why Jewish Wannabes Attack
The Masters List
You're A Hopeless ....
Preterism Versus Dispensationalism
What's Love Got To Do With It?
When Jewish Wannabes Attack!
Preterism and Calvinism?
Who Do Men Say That I Am?
Signs You Are Doing Something Right
Ivory Tower Theologians and more about me
Satan the Counterfeiter
Saved By Race or By Grace?
Wanna Know Some Secrets?
Distortions of the Resurrection
Apostles Today?
Message and Ministry of Paul compared to the twelve
Maxwell House...Good For Your Desktop
The Feminization of Christianity
Absurd World Views
Religion versus Relationship
The Mysteries Revealed
Replacement Theology
How did the Tribes and Books get Lost?
Catholics, Cliques and Cults
New Age Movement
Should Christians Observe the Sabbath?
The Power of One
Be Thankful
Group Think and the Jew
You Must Be Born Again!!
Tribute to a Friend
Who's That Babe in the Manger: Does it matter
President Bush and the Movie: Unbreakable
Having a Form of Godliness
The Natural Supernatural Connection
Spiritually Challenged Skeptics
Speaking or Praying to the Dead
Eternally Insecure?
The Preterist's False Hope
Apostolic Succession Catholic Style
Predestination or Free Will
The Foolish Confounding the Wise
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Scripture Twisting: The Figurative Fallacy
So Deep A Child Could Understand
The Apostle Paul
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One that relegates everything to the past cannot conceive of any kind of present or future.

Too many Bible students are unaware of the secrets.

In Romans 11 it speaks of a mystery/secret that many overlook.

It says, 'For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of
this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that
blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the
Gentiles be come in. 26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is
written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn
away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this is my covenant unto them,
when I shall take away their sins.' (Romans 11)

Anyone that has looked at the mysteries of the NT knows that there is
a common thread in all of them.

Can you guess what that is?

Of course it involves God and Man ultimately but it is 'two become one'

Looking at the mysteries we see 'two becoming one'

The mysteries are:

God and Man in Christ. (1 Timothy 3:16)

Christ and the Church (Ephesians 5:32)

Jew and Gentile (Romans 11:24-27; Ephesians 2:14-17)

It is not One, it is two become One, and I don't mean a Hindu Oneness
where I become the walrus.

This oneness, is a union that respects the uniqueness of each side.

In other words:

I am united to God through Christ but I don't become God or Christ.

Christ was one with the Father and was God, but was not the Father.

My wife and I are one flesh but I am not my wife and she is not me.

Jew and Gentile are one but they are not each other, they are One New
Man.

This is also important because if we assume that oneness means each
other then we are hindus or believe in Replacement Theology.

If we understand that there are three persons in One God then we are
Christians.

If we don't understand this oneness we become Preterists, Catholics,
JW's, etc.

Each one of these groups gives an improper definition of Oneness and
it stains the rest of their theology or eschatology.

Again the passage says,

It says, 'For I would NOT, brethren, that ye should be IGNORANT OF
THIS MYSTERY, lest ye should be WISE IN YOUR OWN CONCEITS; that
BLINDNESS IN PART is happened to ISRAEL, UNTIL the FULNESS OF THE
GENTILES be come in. 26 And so ALL ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED: as it is
written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn
away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this is my covenant unto them,
when I shall take away their sins.' (Romans 11)

Also check out Zechariah 12

This is one of the mysteries.

The ultimate mystery is God become Man, the uniting of heavenly and
earthly. (1 Timothy 3:16)

Two Become One.

The resultant mystery mentioned in Romans 11 is related to what
Israel did to the ultimate mystery (Christ), they murdered him.

(Acts 2;1 Thess. 2:15)

This and the rejection of John the Baptist, Stephen and Paul led to
Paul saying,

'46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary
that the word of God should FIRST have been spoken to you: but seeing
ye put it from you, and JUDGE YOURSELVES UNWORTHY OF EVERLASTING
LIFE, lo, WE TURN TO THE GENTILES. 47 For so hath the Lord commanded
us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou
shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.' (Acts 13)

The gospel accounts record all the times the Jews rejected the
message, thus confirming this passage in Romans.

Rejecting the mystery mentioned in 1 Timothy 3:16, led to the mystery
mentioned in Romans eleven.

This brought in a time delay that can be seen when comparing Acts
2:18,19.

Many groups that have not understood this mystery have come up with
many false views of the scriptures.

They have taken the rest of the prophecies that haven't been
fulfilled yet and declared them fulfilled invisibly and in the
heavenlies.

All to avoid the time delay that came because of 1 Timothy 3:16 and
Romans 11:24-27.

Some arguments against the plain sense meaning of Romans 11:25-27 are that sometimes Israel doesn't mean Israel.

Similar to a statement a former president made which is, 'It depends on what your definition of 'is', is.

Context can tell us real quick whether the verses we are looking at are referring to actual Israel or not.

First, it says, 'For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.'

Because this passage is contrasting Israel to the Gentiles, it must be actual and Physical Jews that it is talking about.

God does not want us ignorant of this mystery.

In addition to this we can see by reading the gospels and the book of Acts that it is actual Israel that rejected Messiah. (1 Thessalonians 2:15;Acts 13:46;Acts 7; Acts 2)

It is not spiritual Israel that rejected Messiah or they wouldn't be spiritual Israel.

So we know that the blindness of Israel means the blindness of Israel.

The blindness is 'in part' because some Jews did receive Messiah.

It is also in part because it says, 'UNTIL' the fulness of the Gentiles come in.

This is confirmed in Zechariah 12:10 that explains what happens when Christ comes back and Israel sees 'him whom they have pierced.'

So the Preterist argument that 'So' in this verse means HOW not WHEN is ludicrous. The context and the word 'Until' make it clear that even though the meaning might include the how of it, it also includes the WHEN of Israel being saved.

To include Christians in the definition of Israel here would not work because:

1) Christians are not blinded and have received Messiah.

2) To say all Israel shall be saved and then say that this means Christians is to say that all Christians will be saved, which is obvious and unnecessary to say.

This is like saying, 'All those who are alive will breathe '

Those that claim to not believe dispensationalism often agree with the time elements of this passage thereby proving that they do believe in dispensations.

However, this often doesn't stop them from condemning those that don't believe in the exact dispensational distinctions that they do.

Another argument comes from those influenced by the WCOG and Armstrongism of the past.

The argument that when Paul speaks of Israel here he is only referring to the two or ten tribes but not all twelve tribes.

Those involved in these groups have a vested interest in proving that they are Jews.

This is another distinction that doesn't hold water.

Peter and James were well aware of where all twelve tribes were and treated them all as if they needed to hear the same thing. (Matthew 10:5ff; James 1:1)

If Peter and James knew where they were then the twelve tribes must have known where they were.

It would have served no purpose for Jesus and Paul to have a message concerning them if they didn't know who they were.

The next part of these verses says,

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.' (Romans 11)

The blindness of actual Israel can be proved by contrast and reading the bible.

Therefore to then change the meaning of Israel midstream is faulty hermeneutics and meant to fit the Preterist preconceived notions.

If it was and is Israel that was partially blinded then in the end it is actual Israel that will be saved.

This passage in Romans is referring to Zechariah when Jesus comes back to Israel in the end. (Zechariah 12)

So the when of it is the context here.

This is not just a physical salvation/Deliverance here because it says, 'There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:'

Why?

Because:

1) He comes out of Zion

2) Turns away ungodliness from Jacob

3) This is his covenant with them. (Ezekiel 36)

Preterists argue that because of the unbelief of Israel that he forever turned away from them as a Nation.

The scripture says that this is only temporary and it is because of His faithfulness that he will regather, restore and recreate actual Israel.

So the meaning of Israel can be determined by context and contrast and reading the record that confirms this passage in Romans.

Romans makes it clear that the partial blindness of Israel has happened and because of it the time of the gentiles has come in. (Romans 11:25-27)

This explains the delay in the complete fulfillment of what was promised to Israel. Compare Acts 2:18 to 2:19.

Obviously this reference is speaking of physical Israel, because it would make no sense to say that spiritual Israel is blind.

If spiritual Israel was blind then they wouldn't be spiritual Israel.

This silliness comes when Preterists redefine Israel contrary to context.

Obviously, this is physical Israel that is blinded.

That being said, we need to see that:

1) It is partial, temporary ...'blindness in part'

A) UNTIL the fulness of the Gentiles come in.

So obviously this isn't a permanent setting aside as some allege.

So the church doesn't replace Israel.

What part of 'Until' don't they understand.

Still, there are those that say God is completely done with Israel.

Not so says Ezekiel 36

Then others want us to believe that this passage in Romans changes the meaning of Israel midstream and that 'All Israel Shall Be Saved' refers to someone other than physical Israel.

Also denying the passage in Zechariah which says,

'9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. 10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. 11 In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon. ' (Zechariah 12)

Obviously the context of Zechariah and Romans states that this is in the future, so in the future 'All Israel Shall Be Saved.', when they see the one they have pierced.

That doesn't mean that 'All Israel Shall be saved' today.

One that relegates everything to the past cannot conceive of any kind of present or future.

In Romans 11 it speaks of a mystery/secret that many overlook.

It says, 'For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this is my covenant unto them,
when I shall take away their sins.' (Romans 11)

Thessalonians says, 'For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a
shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God:
and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive
and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to
meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18
Wherefore comfort one another with these words.'

coupled with:

51 Behold, I shew you A MYSTERY; We shall not all sleep, but we shall
all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the
last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised
incorruptible, and we shall be changed. (1 Corinthians 15)

Now at this point I dunno whether the secret is the rapture or the
resurrection or both.

But in line with the other secrets I would guess that the Rapture is
part of this particular secret.

Let me say up front that the timing of the rapture shouldn't be
something that Christians get bent out of shape about.

This would be majoring on the minors.

I have had to settle a few down because they forgot that fact.

However I think we can have many deep discussions about it.

I usually save this secret for later. The reason being that the other
secrets have to be established before this one can be effectively
brought out.

Believing the mysteries, I believe that we are in the time of the
mysteries, which are listed in my previous message entitled: Romans
11/Wanna Know a Secret.

This secret/mystery called the rapture (caught up), happens during
the partial blindness of Israel. (Romans 11:24-27),another mystery,
and is not the subject of the prophecies related to Israel that will
be resumed in the end.

People often refer to Jewish things in trying to prove the timing of
the rapture but I believe the rapture is not bound by Jewish language
and terminology.

Trumpet has a Jewish and Christian meaning.

If one does not distinguish between things related ONLY to Israel and
things related to the body of Christ then they may come to the
conclusion that we are going through the tribulation.

Still, there are those like Cynthia, that are persuaded of a post
trib rapture, that have come to the conclusion simply by what they
have read in certain passages.

They may be right.

Part of it goes back to the definition of oneness. The mysteries
involve 'Two Becoming One' which requires that we understand oneness.

Oneness doesn't mean becoming each other, it means a uniting of two
unique events or persons etc.

The uniqueness isn't dissolved in this union.

In other Words, when God became a man, he didn't cease to be God.

The Second Coming and the Rapture are united but have their
distinctions as well.

The Rapture is Christ coming to the Air (1 Thess. 4:16,17)

His Second Coming is Christ continuing on to Earth three and a half
or seven years later. (Zechariah 12-14)

Regarding the apostasy mentioned in 2 Thessalonians 2, the apostasy
is a rebellion that is defined as a person in the following verse.


The Tribulation is Jacob's Trouble (Jeremiah 30:7?), and is what was
delayed becauses of the mysteries related to the body of Christ,
mentioned in the NT, by Paul.

Do your own study of the mysteries and you will never be the same.

In my previous messages entitled: 'Romans 11/Wanna Know a Secret', I pointed out the first mystery that disproves Preterism amongst other things.

Next, I wanted to look 2 Peter three that speaks of another thing that scripture doesn't want us ignorant of or 'let not be concealed' as the greek says.

A Mystery is that which is concealed and Paul and Peter wanted us not to be ignorant/let not be concealed what was once concealed.

Other things Paul didn't want us ignorant of are in the following scriptures:

(2 Peter 3:5,8; Romans 11:25-27; 1 Thessalonians 4:13 with 1 Corinthians 15:51,52)

The usage of 'don't want you ignorant' and 'mystery' go hand in hand.

The first example I gave was in Romans 11:25-27, please read that first.

Both this reference and the 2 Peter three example are speaking of the same essential mystery, which was a delay.

Compare the two.

Peter in Second Peter is speaking of Paul's understanding of the delay, which was really God's longsuffering. (v 15)

Both passages explain the present dispensation that we are in.

Some groups namely Preterism has sought to ignore this mystery/secret/delay.

These two passages say not to be ignorant of this. (Romans 11; 2 Peter 3)

The Preterists have chosen to be ignorant.

vv. 5-7 speak of a literal flood, and then a literal fiery judgment.

The preterist wants to believe in a literal flood but a figurative fire.

Ignorance and inconsistent.

Another connection of Paul not wanting us ignorant is 1 Thess. 4:13 with 1 Corinthians 15:51,52

When do you think this mystery will happen?

The same time as the others, of course.

Before the delayed program for Israel is resumed (Romans 11:25-27)

5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Take a look at another mystery WHICH IS FINISHED in Revelation and tell me what it is.

Here is the passage:

And the angel that I saw standing upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his right hand to heaven, 6 and sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created the heaven and the things that are therein, and the earth and the things that are therein, and the sea and the things that are therein, that there shall be DELAY NO LONGER: 7 but in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, then is finished they mystery of God, according to the good tidings which he declared to his servants the prophets.  (Revelation 10)

Here are some clues:

1) Look at the previous mysteries

2) Read Daniel 12

3) Read the CAPS

Here it says in Revelation (which is STILL future) that the 'mystery of God is finished' that there shall be 'delay no longer'.

One thing that is running through the mysteries spoken of so far is that they speak of a delay.

Preterism rejects the idea of any kind of delay, yet every mystery brought up so far speaks of a delay.

I am not saying that this is all that the mysteries are speaking of,  but that they account for the delay.

The mysteries speak of Two Becoming One whether it be:

God and Man (1 Timothy 3:16)

Christ and the Church (Ephesians 5:32)

Jew and Gentile (1 Timothy 3:16)

However, one doesn't mean one side becomes the other as some suggest.

It means unified.

Getting back to Revelation we see that this is referring to what is spoken of in Daniel which says,

'6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders? 7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he HELD UP HIS RIGHT HAND AND HIS LEFT HAND TO HEAVEN, and sware by him that liveth for ever  that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to SCATTER THE POWER OF THE HOLY PEOPLE, all these things shall be finished. ' (Daniel 12)

Notice the CAPS in this passage. This is where there is commonality with the Revelation passage.

Notice that Israel's blindness will continue UNTIL the fulness of the Gentiles (not the church) come in. This is called a mystery (Romans 11:25-27)

The mysteries that Paul preached totally dispel the myth of Preterism and anyone that claims to believe Paul cannot be a Preterist.

Paul, Peter and John didn't want us ignorant of the delay, Preterists do. Read 2 Peter 3:8; Romans 11:25-27; Revelation 10, and Preterist's are willingly ignorant of them.

Peter recognized the special wisdom of Paul. (2 Peter 3:15,16)

                                              BJ Max