What is interesting to look at are the different books or
sources of information that religious groups use in addition to the Bible to come to their conclusions. Some of these groups
put these sources on an equal level with or on a higher level than the Bible itself.
Mormonism: Journal of Discourses,
Book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith, The Articles of Faith
Catholicism: Church Tradition, the Magesterium
Science: Keys to Science and Health, Mary Baker Eddy
Preterism: The Jewish War, Josephus, Historical Method The list
could go on.
Historical Method is a method of interpretation that uses history
outside the scripture to interpret scripture. I disagree with this method because Homosexuals are now using this method to
Too many groups out there encourage some kind of Group Think where its congregants are supposed
to blindly accept the word of the leaders.
Is this what the Bible encourages us to do?
I don't think so!
Sure we should have those that we are accountable to.
However, these leaders should be subject to God, others and the scriptures as well.
In Timothy it says, "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing
the word of truth." (2 Timothy 2:15)
And "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction
in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works." (2 Timothy 3:16,17)
verses say that through the study of the scripture I can be thoroughly furnished unto EVERY GOOD WORK, so that 'THE MAN OF
GOD (Me) MAY BE PERFECT, THOROUGHLY FURNISHED UNTO ALL GOOD WORKS.'
This means that I don't need Extrabiblical Commentary that rivals the Bible, from errant groups.
Catholics then try to make a distinction between formal and material sufficiency, but since this is a fictional distinction
outside of scripture, this can be rejected as well.
In Catholic groups that I have visited the typical responses that I have heard from Catholics is that these verses
are for Timothy not us. So in other words these verses are for those that are in ecclesiastical authority.
The following is the extrabiblical nonsense that the Catholic
Church depends on for their version of the truth. It can be shown that groups like the JW's, Mormons, Christian Scientists
etc have more in common with Catholics than Bible believers.
"Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture, then, are bound
closely together and communicate one with the other. For both of them, flowing out from the same divine well-spring, come
together in some fashion to form one thing and move toward the same goal.' Each of them makes present and fruitful in the
Church the mystery of Christ, who promised to remain with his own 'always, to the close of the age." (Cathechism of the Catholic
Church, pg 26, Libreria Editrice Vaticana)
See how they use part of a biblical verse, but then pile a bunch of extrabiblical
nonsense on top of it to make their beliefs more appealing?
The Mormons do the same thing.
Note the following extrabiblical nonsense from the Catholics.
"The task of giving an authentic interpretation of the Word of God, whether in its written form or in the form of
Tradition, has been entrusted to the living, teaching office of the Church alone. ...This means that the task of interpretation
has been entrusted to the bishops in communion with the successor of Peter, the Bishop of Rome." (Ibid, pg 27)
is clear therefore that, in the supremely wise arrangement of God, sacred Tradition, Sacred Scripture, and the Magesterium
of the Church are so connected and associated that one of them cannot stand without the others. Working together, each in
its own way, under the action of the one Holy Spirit, they all contribute effectively to the salvation of souls." (Ibid, pg
"But since Sacred Scripture is inspired, there is another and no less important principle of correct interpretation...'Sacred
Scripture must be read and interpreted in the light of the same spirit by whom it was written." 1. "Be especially attentive
content and unity of the whole scripture... 2. Read the scripture within 'the living Tradition of the whole church."
(Ibid, pg 32)...
Their traditions have contradicted the Word of God and in fact makes it very difficult to communicate
with them. As in a cult, unless you demonstrate to them that the Bible stands alone as our ultimate source of truth YOU ARE
WASTING YOUR TIME. They believe in the virgin birth of Christ, but need to come up with the Immaculate Conception of Mary
(not Jesus) to explain how Christ could be born of Mary but without sin. They have an elaborate system that one has to get
through before they are acceptable to Christ: Purgatory, baptism... They accomplish this by taking half an idea from the bible
then making a transition to their tradition to come up with the other half.
This is bait and switch at its worst.
they had only stayed with the Bible they could have gotten the whole truth, nothing but the truth....God help us!!
the Pharisees and the scribes ask him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat their
bread with defiled hands? 6 And he said unto them, Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people
honoreth me with their lips, But their heart is far from me. 7 But in vain do they worship me, Teaching [as their] doctrines
the precepts of men. 8 Ye leave the commandment of God, and hold fast the tradition of men." (Mark 7)
want to give the job of studying and the sufficiency of scripture only to the religious leaders. I have even heard Catholics
say that the term 'man of God' refers to Timothy and religious leaders, because whenever 'man of God' is used in scripture
it is referring to Timothy.
Then the following verse should not also apply to us:
"For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced
themselves through with many sorrows. 11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness,
faith, love, patience, meekness. 12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called,
and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses." (1 Timothy 6)
So following their reasoning all the way
through, these commands only apply to Timothy. We Christians should not be concerned with 'following after righteousness',
'godliness' ...and we shouldn't 'flee the things' Paul mentions here, according to Catholic logic. We know that this is ludicrous,
but this is Catholic reasoning when they leave the reasoning up to the leaders and extrabiblical nonsense. Also if we made
irrelevant verses that were first written to someone else we wouldn't have anything to study. It is time for us to stand against
those that stand against the sufficiency of the Word of God.
This explains why the Catholics often accept Evolution
or allow it to be taught in their schools.
When a group allows the idea that other non biblical literature can equal
or even supercede the plain sense of scripture then they have no defense against other ideas or groups making the same claims.
see scripture through muddy glasses and what is crystal clear to a bible believer is instantly reinterpreted by their other
Walter Martin gave a great example at how groups redefine terms, to their and our peril.
"The problem of semantics has always played an important part in human affairs, for by its use, or abuse, whichever the case
may be, entire churches, thrones and even governments for that matter, have been erected, sustained or overthrown. The late
George Orwell's stirring novel, 1984 in which he points out that the redefinition of common political terms can lead to slavery
when it is allowed to pass unchallenged by a lethargic populace, is a classic illustration
of the dangers of perverted semantics.... "
He goes on to show how this applies to religious groups.
a cultist then, always remember that you are dealing with a person who is familiar with Christian terminology, and who has
carefully redefined it to fit the system of thought he or she now embraces." (Kingdom of the Cults, pg. 20, Martin)
explains how the plain sense of scripture which says,
'Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst
formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God. ' (Psalm 90:2), is instantly reinterpreted
to include the following quote:
"As Man is God once was, as God is man may become."
Or the plain sense of, "why stand ye gazing up into heaven? THIS SAME JESUS, which is taken up from you into
heaven, shall SO COME IN LIKE MANNER AS YE HAVE SEEN HIM GO INTO HEAVEN." (Acts 1)
"Behold, he cometh with
clouds; and EVERY EYE SHALL SEE HIM, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of
him. Even so, Amen. 8 I am Alpha and Omega, the
beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and
which is to come, THE ALMIGHTY." (Revelation 1)
But some are saying, Jesus has already come again and every eye didn't
see him and he didn't come to the Mount of Olives either.
These folks want us to believe that Jesus was God almighty and that the same Jesus will
come back as these scripture say but want us to make figurative how these same scriptures say he would come IN LIKE MANNER
and that EVERY EYE SHALL SEE HIM.
This is Preterism and is a form of gnosticism.
This is silly to assume that one can
get away with making one part of a scripture figurative to fit ones preconceived notions but then think that others would
be wrong to make figurative the other parts regarding the deity of Christ.
The Unification Church and other religious
groups have claimed Sun Myung Moon and others as the second coming of Christ completely making figurative these scriptures
that say THIS SAME JESUS.
Others are making figurative the other parts of these scriptures.
is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. (1 Timothy 2:5)
Pretty plain isn't it?
Not if you
accept the equal authority of Catholic or Mormon Tradition.
Notice in the following Catholic Quote how Mary has been
elevated beyond what scripture allows:
"Mary's role in the Church is inseparable from her union with Christ and flows
directly from it. 'This union of mother with the Son in the work of salvation is MADE MANIFEST FROM the time of Christ's
conception UP TO HIS DEATH', it is made manifest above all at the hour of his Passion." (The Catholic Catechism, #964)
The interesting thing about this quote is that it is claiming that Mary's role in salvation was present from
the virginal conception UP TO his death.'
This silly and outrageous claim is without any merit. If this was true during
the time of Jesus's life and death it would be in scripture which was about the life and death of Jesus.
Did you see?
says, 'from the virginal conception up
to his death.'
This means that the Catechism alleges that Mary played a role
in salvation from the virginal conception to his death.
Since his birth and death are included in scripture, you would
think that Mary's role in salvation during these times would be mentioned in scripture as well.
Nothing about her role
in salvation after the virginal conception, only Him calling her 'woman'.
Wow, what an oversight on his part!!!!!!!!!
an oversight on God's part wouldn't you say?
These folks cannot understand the most simple scriptures because they
have allowed their leaders to subvert the plain word of God with their extrabiblical nonsense.
folks are so Catholic minded that they are no heavenly good.
You cannot even get them to agree on common definitions.
depends on what your definition of 'Is' is.'
So this is why I have concluded that it is impossible to persuade these
folks, unless they first accept the authority that scripture emphatically declares for itself.
Some want to take pride
in the fact that they can drag discussions on for long periods of time. However, in the long run all they have proven is that
they know how to be an obstruction in the road, similar to how a dead oak can just lie there not allowing anyone to get through.
have had some in our egroup that have deceptively tried to consume all the energy and time of this group with silly and
repetetive nonsense that either demonstrates their reprobate minds or that they are what you may term, plants that come into
a group only to impede truth creating a stalemate.
It reminds me of an episode in Star Trek the Next Generation where
Data (an Android), is beaten in an advanced game of chess by a funny looking man. The Crew couldn't believe that Data could
So the next time Data played the man he decided to play for a stalemate rather than winning, and flustered
the other man by only countering everything the man sent his way.
A movie called War Games was based on the same approach.
Matthew Broderick had accidentally got a computer to instigate World War III through what he thought was only a computer game.
no one could turn the computer off Matthew decided to play another game with the machine. The game was Tic Tac Toe, where
no one could win.
The computer finally saw the connection between Tic Tac Toe and the utter futility of Thermonuclear
war and then shut down its own systems.
All this to show that I have watched a lot of Television in my day but more
importantly that we should avoid having discussions with those that are not interested in truth but only in slowing down,
creating a stalemate or stopping forward progress.
These folks throw their traditions into the mix that only subvert
the Word of God and just like any stalemate make the scripture of none effect.
Those that believe in Theistic Evolution somehow think that one
can believe the bible and also believe in Evolution.
This can only happen when one makes figurative (not literal) passages
such as the ones having to do with:
1) Six Literal Days of Creation
2) The Sin of Adam and the resultant curse.
The problem is that they have to dismiss the plain sense of scripture to make both compatible.
views about Genesis add billions of years of secular uniformitarian `science' to the PLAIN TEACHINGS OF SCRIPTURE [see Q&A:
BJ Maxwell 05/05/2006
for a defence of a straightforward reading of Genesis and refutation
of compromise views]. But as well as INTERPRETING GOD'S INFALLIBLE WORD BY THE FALLIBLE THEORIES OF MEN, these positions have
one major flaw in common: they must logically teach that death, disease and suffering existed for millions of years before
Theistic Evolutionists are not the only ones that do
this and that supplement scripture with the theories and traditions of men.