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Christianity Under Fire

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Paul's Purpose At Athens: Becoming All Things To All People
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Scriptures Calvinist's Misinterpret
Resistance Is Futile!
You're a Hopeless Replacement Theologian If You:
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Chronological Chart of New Testament
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Body of Christ versus Israel
The Mark of the Beast: Is it Literal?
You Know You're A Preterist If:
You Know You're a Preterist if: Part Three
The Comings of Christ: The How, When and Where
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DaVinci Code: Was Christ's Divinity and the Bible invented at the Council of Nicea?
Plain Sense Interpretation/P'shat: Christs Comings
Isaiah 53: Human Sacrifice?
Isaiah 53: Christ Has Risen!!
Who Hath Believed Our Report?
Isaiah 53: Christ Our Passover Lamb
Isaiah 53: Messianic Prophecies Refuted?
Chart comparing Israel to Messiah
Isaiah 53: The Suffering Messiah
Bible Chart: Does the Bible conflict on Salvation Messages?
Christs Coming and Time Gaps
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When Did the Church Begin?
When Did the Church Begin Pt. 2
Is America Cursed?
How and Why Christianity is Under Fire
Was Mary a Perpetual Virgin?
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Jewish Wannabes and the Holidays
Christmas Under Fire: When Christians Attack
Is Celebrating Christmas Scriptural?
Was Iraq a Just War?
Category 7: The End of the World
If It Believes, Then Waddles and Quacks like a Christian it is a....
Why Homosexuality Should Be Confronted and Exposed
The Doctrine Of Eternal Security-Can You Lose Your Salvation?
Does the Soul Sleep?
Did Jews Kill Jesus?...Hear What Some Jews Have to Say
Some Unscriptural Teachings of the Catholic Church
Arguments That Catholics Use
Pantribulationism: Are There Two Programs Going On?
Before and After
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Definite Article Theology: The Way
Pantribulationism: Extrabiblical Nonsense
My Old Ship, the USS Shreveport Assisting Hurricane Victims
Pantribulationism: Should I Stay or Should I Go?
Trinity of God and Trichotomy of man: Definite Article Theology
Definite Article Theology
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Pantribulationism: The Departure
Pantribulationism: It will all pan out in the end
Straining Out Gnats, Majoring on the Minors
Jewish Wannabes and Eschaholics
When Jewish Wannabes Attack What They Don't Understand
How Jewish Wannabes Attack and How to Identify Them
Historical Method and Homosexuality
If the Plain Sense Makes Sense: Christ's Coming
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Communism and Islam -vs- the Faith of America's Founding Fathers
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When Jewish Wannabes Attack the Bible
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The following is from a site that attempts to discredit the fulfillments of Yeshua the Messiah in regards to messianic prophecies. So I refute these refuters.


The best description of Judaism that I can give is that it is incomplete. The ones that refuse to receive the rest of the Revelation of Yeshua Hamaschiach are also incomplete. Much of Judaism was pointing to a future revelation in Messiah. Christianity is based on a better and greater Saviour than Moses (Hebrews 1:3,4; 3:3;7:7), a better hope (Hebrews 7:19), a better covenant (7:22;8:6), better promises (8:6), a better sacrifice (9:23), a better country (11:16), better things (11:40;12:24), a better resurrection (11:35), and a better and enduring substance (10:34) There are those that insist on remaining in their incompleteness and have rejected the truth of Jesus the Messiah. The following are some arguments against the fulfillment of messianic prophecies in Jesus. I also refute the refuters. Here it is: My critique of the website at: <> Since my critique much has been changed on their website. Amenyahu and Raines attempt to refute the following messianic fulfillments of prophecy: amenyahu writes: "Lev.23:36-37...The Drink-offering: "If any man thirst."...Jn. 19:31-36 (36) Seven days ye shall bring an offering made by fire unto YHWH; on the eighth day shall be a holy convocation unto you; and ye shall bring an offering made by fire unto YHWH; it is a day of solemn assembly; ye shall do no manner of servile work. (37) These are the appointed seasons of YHWH, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, to bring an offering made by fire unto YHWH, a burnt-offering, and a meal-offering, a sacrifice, and drink-offerings, each on its own day; The drink offering always accompanied a meal offering. It is a sacrifice given BY people, not TO people. This is not a Messianic Prophecy."


bj responds: First of all your reference to John 19:31-36 is wrong, it is John 19:28, and who says that 'I Thirst' is a fulfillment of Leviticus 23:36-37, other than you? It seems to be a fulfillment of Psalms 69:21 which says, "Reproach hath broken my heart; and I am full of heaviness: and I looked for some to take pity, but there was none; and for comforters, but I found none. 21 They gave me also gall for my meat; and in my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink." (The Complete Jewish Bible) It is also interesting to note that the first verse here says, 'Reproach hath broken my heart', which might be a prediction of what would also happen to Christ. I have never read anyone pointing this prediction out before, so we may have even more messianic prophecies fulfilled by Jesus Christ than we first thought. "One of the executioners thrust a spear in Christ's side and as recorded in John 19:34, "... immediately there came out blood and water.' Davis relates that there was 'an escape of watery fluid from the sac surrounding the heart. We, therefore, have rather conclusive post mortem evidence that [Christ] died not the usual crucifixion death by suffocation, but of heart failure due to shock and constriction of the heart by fluid in the pericardium." Dr. Stuart Bergsma, a physician and surgeon writes about the 'blood and water,' saying: 'A small amount of pericardial fluid, up to 20 or 30 cc's, normally is present in good health. It is possible that with a wound piercing the pericardium and heart, enough pericardial fluid might escape to be described as water." (Resurrection Factor, McDowell, pg. 48) So in other words, Messiah died of a broken heart and Israel continues to break His heart. BJ Maxwell


Here is another post by Raines Miller and D. Dryden to a site. "Messianic Prophecies Refuted (Job 19:23-27- Ps. 2:12) by D. Dryden & R. Miller RaineLovesJ writes: Job 19:23-27...The Resurrection predicted...Jn. 5:24-29 Job 19:21-29 Have pity upon me, have pity upon me, O ye my friends; for the hand of God hath touched me. Why do ye persecute me as God, and are not satisfied with my flesh? Oh that my words were now written! Oh that they were inscribed in a book! That with an iron pen and lead they were graven in the rock for ever! But as for me, I know that my Redeemer liveth, and that He will witness at the last upon the dust; And when after my skin this is destroyed, then without my flesh shall I see God; Whom I, even I, shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another's. My reins are consumed within me. If ye say: 'How we will persecute him!' seeing that the root of the matter is found in me; Be ye afraid of the sword; for wrath bringeth the punishments of the sword, that ye may know there is a judgment. Posted by RaineLovesJ on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 02:49 PM (3 Reads) Read more... (5207 bytes more) comments?"


 bj responds: The New Testament reference here says absolutely nothing about it being a complete fulfillment of this passage in Job. Plus these guys offer no refutation but to say that somehow this isn't a fulfillment. These guys are setting up straw men to knock down. Their reference to the psalms says this, '10 Therefore, kings, be wise; be warned, you judges of the earth. 11 Serve ADONAI with fear; rejoice, but with trembling. 12 Kiss the son, lest he be angry, and you perish along the way, when suddenly his anger blazes. How blessed are all who take refuge in him. (Psalm 2:10-12, The Complete Jewish Bible) This is true and will happen, but the NT reference they make says nothing of this passage in the OT. Their OT reference to Job says, "I wish my words were written down, that they were inscribed in a scroll, 24 that, engraved with iron and filled with lead, they were cut into rock forever! 25 "But I know that my Redeemer lives, that in the end he will rise on the dust; 26 so that after my skin has been thus destroyed, then even without my flesh, I will see God. 27 I will see him for myself, my eyes, not someone else's, will behold him. My heart grows weak inside me!" Again what does this have to do with the NT scripture you gave? John 5:24-29 makes no reference to being a fulfillment of these prophecies. Here it is: "Yes, indeed! I tell you that whoever hears what I am saying and trusts the One who sent me has eternal life -- that is, he will not come up for judgment but has already crossed over from death to life! 25 Yes, indeed! I tell you that there is coming a time -- in fact, it's already here -- when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who listen will come to life. 26 For just as the Father has life in himself, so he has given the Son life to have in himself. 27 Also he has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of Man. 28 Don't be surprised at this; because the time is coming when all who are in the grave will hear his voice 29 and come out -- those who have done good to a resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to a resurrection of judgment. (John 5:24-29, The Complete Jewish Bible) As far as the Son of God raising the dead in the last days this is a future prediction. The life that believers presently have in Christ is spiritual life. The body will not be resurrected until later. However, there were some that resurrected after Jesus' death (Matthew 27) BJ Maxwell


The following folks are attempting to refute the Messianic prophecies in the bible. I took it upon myself to refute the refuters, here it is: D. Dryden and Raine Miller write: "You'll also find a funny analogy that puts these "prophecies" into a proper context further down on the page. Have fun! OK, let's do some refutin'! Ex. 3:13, 14........The Great "I Am".......Jn. 4:26 (13) And Moses said unto God: 'Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them: The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me: What is His name? What shall I say unto them?' (14) And God said unto Moses: 'I AM THAT I AM'; and He said: 'Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel: I AM hath sent me unto you.' (15) And God said moreover unto Moses: 'Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel: YHWH, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you; this is My name for ever, and this is My memorial unto all generations. This is YHWH stating His name. Period. Nothing messianic about it. Once again, reading INTO the text and not letting it speak for itself. Besides, when is Yeshua ever called YHWH?"


 bj responds: First of all the NT passage you refer to is another straw man example. This verse says that He is the messiah, but makes no reference to his statement, 'I AM', do you guys even check these NT references. You guys are being dishonest here in your presentation of the fulfilled prophecies of Jesus. He fulfilled hundreds of predictions but you are making references to scriptures that don't even apply to what you are trying to refute. A better NT passage referring to 'I AM' is: "Avraham, your father, was glad that he would see my day; then he saw it and was overjoyed." 57 "Why, you're not yet fifty years old," the Judeans replied, "and you have seen Avraham?" 58 Yeshua said to them, "Yes, indeed! Before Avraham came into being, I AM!" 59 At this, they picked up stones to throw at him; but Yeshua was hidden and left the Temple grounds." (The Complete Jewish Bible John 8) First of all even if one doesn't see this as Messiah using the ancient name of God, 'I AM' it still shows that he is saying that before Abraham was He existed. In the OT Yahweh said He preexisted as well. So preexistence is one of the characteristics of God. This should not be used alone to show the Messiah is God but this can be used with other scriptures. We know by the response of the Jews right after Messiah's statement that this really made them angry, so I tend to believe that Jesus used the Hebrew of Exodus 3:14 to state that He was 'I AM'in the NT. But lets look at the context of this NT passage. This can give us a clue as to whether Messiah was just referring to His preexistence here (one quality of Deity) or that He meant more than this. It says earlier in this passage, Christ speaking "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM HE, ye shall die in your sins. ... (John 8:24) So who is Jesus? In Isaiah it says, "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I AM HE; I am the first, I also am the last. Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens...." "Come close to me, and listen to this: since the beginning I have not spoken in secret, since the time things began to be, I have been there; and now Adonai ELOHIM has sent me and his Spirit." (Isaiah 48, The Complete Jewish Bible) The Divine One who is speaking in verses twelve, thirteen and sixteen is being sent by the Lord God, AND his Spirit in verse sixteen. This is demonstrated from a Jewish Translation. Here is a plurality of persons in the Godhead. Jesus is not the Father but has a relationship with the Father. Now the verse that says, "ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM HE, ye shall die in your sins. ..." (John 8:24) is actually referring to His eternal place in the Triunity of God. So when Jesus says, Before Abraham was, I AM, this in context means a more than just preexistence and He is showing that He is the God of the Tanakh. BJ Maxwell


These folks don't believe Jesus fulfilled many OT prophecies. I will look at three refutations made by Raine and D. Dryden because they are related. Here is their first statement: Ex. 12:5...A Lamb without blemish...1 Pet. 1:19 (5) Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year; ye shall take it from the sheep, or from the goats; Ex. 12:13...The blood of the Lamb saves from wrath...Rom. 5:8 (13) And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are; and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and there shall no plague be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt. These deal with the Passover lamb. Not prophecy, and not messianic.


bj responds: Actually, they are messianic types and fulfillments, if you look at all the passages having to do with a Lamb in the OT. In Isaiah 53 it says, "Though mistreated, he was submissive - he did not open his mouth. Like a LAMB led to be slaughtered, like a sheep silent before its shearers, he did not open his mouth. 8 After forcible arrest and sentencing, he was taken away; and none of his generation protested his being cut off from the land of the living for the crimes of my people, who deserved the punishment themselves. 9 He was given a grave among the wicked; in his death he was with a rich man. Although he had done no violence and had said nothing deceptive" (The Complete Jewish Bible, Isaiah 53) Here it refers to Messiah as 'like a lamb led to be slaughtered.' D and Raine go on: Ex. 12:21-27...Christ is our Passover...1 Cor. 5:7 (21) Then Moses called for all the elders of Israel, and said unto them: 'Draw out, and take you lambs according to your families, and kill the Passover lamb. (22) And ye shall take a bunch of hyssop, and dip it in the blood that is in the basin, and strike the lintel and the two side-posts with the blood that is in the basin; and none of you shall go out of the door of his house until the morning. (23) For YHWH will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when He seeth the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side-posts, YHWH will pass over the door, and will not suffer the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you. (24) And ye shall observe this thing for an ordinance to thee and to thy sons for ever. (25) And it shall come to pass, when ye be come to the land which YHWH will give you, according as He hath promised, that ye shall keep this service. (26) And it shall come to pass, when your children shall say unto you: What mean ye by this service? (27) That ye shall say: It is the sacrifice of YHWH'S Passover, for that He passed over the houses of the children of Israel in Egypt, when He smote the Egyptians, and delivered our houses.' And the people bowed the head and worshipped. These are very specific instructions, to be followed forever. How this makes any person "the Passover" makes no sense. This is not a prophecy, it's a command.


bj responds: The first passover was a sign of the death of the Lamb in the future. Michael Esses a former Rabbi says, "As they were obedient to put the blood on the sideposts and on the lintel above the door, they were making the sign of the cross in blood, he would pass over them and spare the firstborn of their houses" (Jesus in Exodus, Michael Esses, pg 61) There are many things that point to Jesus and His sacrifice in the OT that you don't even know about. I will post a future message pointing some of these things out. Dryden and Raines continue: Ex. 12:46...Not a bone of the Lamb to be broken...Jn. 19:31-36 (46) In one house shall it be eaten; thou shalt not carry forth aught of the flesh abroad out of the house; neither shall ye break a bone thereof. Again, this is not a prophecy; it is speaking of how to observe the Passover.


bj responds: Your NT reference to bones not being broken is not the only place where bones are talked about. However since Isaiah 53 equates Messiah to 'a lamb to the slaughter' this is enough of a connection to how the lamb of God would be sacrificed. This passage in John nineteen also makes reference to Christ fulfilling the prediction 'and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced', which is Zechariah twelve. Someone has said, that another translation is 'thrust him through' rather than pierced. This fits perfectly well with what happened in the NT passage in question. "33 But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs: 34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water." So Messiah Jesus was pierced and thrust through, so we can see that upon closer examination Yeshua Hamaschiach fulfilled more prophecies than we had first thought. "He guards all his bones; not one of them is broken." (Psalm 34:20) Regarding bones, McDowell says, "Although not stated in scripture,there are two other prophecies that concern His bones that undoubtedly had an exact fulfillement. 1. 'And all My bones are out of joint' (Psalm 22:14). The disjointing of bones while hanging on the cross by the hands and feet could easily come about, especially when we note that His body was attached to the cross while it was lying on the ground 2. 'I can count all my bones. They look and stare at me' (Psalm 22:17). All His bones could easily be seen while He was left hanging on the cross. The extension of His body during crucifixion would tend to make the bones more prominent than usual." (New Evidence That Demands A Verdict, McDowell, pg 191) Shalom bj Pray for the peace of Israel As we continue looking at a site the Raine posts at, we find another attempt at discrediting the fulfillments by Jesus of OT prophecies. Raine writes "Over 300 messianic prophecies refuted (Judges 13:5 - 2 Kings 2:11) amenyahu writes: Judges 13:5 He shall be a Nazarene Mt 2:23 Judges 13:5 For, lo, thou shalt conceive, and bear a son; and no razor shall come upon his head; for the child shall be a Nazirite unto the Deity from the womb; and he shall begin to save Israel out of the hand of the Philistines.' Firstly the context is talking about Samson. The verse itself talks about the Philistines, something that had nothing to do with Yeshua. Thus it is talking about something that happened a couple of millennia before Yeshua."


bj responds: I agree here, Matthew 2:23, 'He shall be called a Nazarene' is not a fulfillment of Judges 13:5, 'He shall be a Nazarite' Firstly, this passage in Judges is not a prophecy. Secondly, Samson was a Nazarite, Jesus was a Nazarene. So I am not helping you say that He didn't fulfill prophecy I am saying he didn't fulfill this statement in Judges. Instead this is a fulfillment of an actual prophecy elsewhere. "Jesus Christ was not a Nazarite (Matthew 11:19; 'Nazarene,'2:23, refers to Isaiah 11:1, the Messiah as a neser, 'sprout,' and his home in the new and lightly esteemed village of Nazareth, 'sprout town'). Paul undertook a Nazarite vow (Acts 18:18) and bore real expenses for others. (21:24)" (Bakers Dictionary of Theology) Another instance of bad communication at <> and working from a straw man list. I will use The Complete Jewish Translation as I often do in talking with Jews. "amenyahu writes: Ex. 33:19...His Character-Merciful...Lu. 1:72 (19) And He said: 'I will make all My goodness pass before thee, and will proclaim the name of YHWH before thee; and I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy.' YHWH is speaking to Moshe, of Himself. In the next verse we read; (20) And He said: 'Thou canst not see My face, for man shall not see Me and live.' How many people saw Yeshua's face and lived? This is not prophetic."


bj responds: "But Moshe said, "I beg you to show me your glory!" 19 He replied, "I will cause all my goodness to pass before you, and in your presence I will pronounce the name of ADONAI. Moreover, I SHOW FAVOR TO WHOMEVER I WILL, and I display mercy to whomever I will. 20 But my face," he continued, "you cannot see, because a human being cannot look at me and remain alive. 21 Here," he said, "is a place near me; stand on the rock. 22 When my glory passes by, I will put you inside a crevice in the rock and cover you with my hand, until I have passed by. 23 Then I will remove my hand, and you will see my back, but my face is not to be seen." (The Complete Jewish Bible, Exodus 33) AND "His father Z'kharyah was filled with the Ruach HaKodesh and spoke this prophecy: 68 "Praised be ADONAI, the God of Isra'el, because he has visited and made a ransom to liberate his people 69 by raising up for us a mighty Deliverer who is a descendant of his servant David. 70 It is just as he has spoken through the mouth of the prophets from the very beginning -- 71 that we should be delivered from our enemies and from the power of all who hate us. 72 "This has happened so that he might show the mercy promised to our fathers --that he would remember his holy covenant, 73 the oath he swore before Avraham avinu 74 to grant us that we, freed from our enemies, would serve him without fear. (Luke 1, The Complete Jewish Bible) In context this New Covenant passage is a fulfillment of a prophecy but doesn't look like it's from Exodus, but because the Baptists that created this list don't pay attention to details and the Anti Messiah site refuses to check their sources we have a straw man argument here. I don't see a connection here between Exodus and Luke. As far as the side issue that David brought up about seeing Yeshua's face and living while looking at God is instant death. The NIV says it best, "No man has ever seen God, but God the only [Son], who is at the Father's side, has made him known." (John 1:18) Messiah Yeshua was God made flesh, so the flesh kept those that saw Him from dying. Part of the quote from Exodus that says, 'I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy.' Sounds similar to what the apostle Paul said in Romans when speaking of the blindness of Israel and the opportunity of salvation for Gentiles. This is what is intended to make Jews jealous. (Romans 9) The picking and choosing what to believe in God's word that our Jewish friends are doing shows that the following is still in effect. "I am speaking the truth - as one who belongs to the Messiah, I do not lie; and also bearing witness is my conscience, governed by the Ruach HaKodesh: 2 my grief is so great, the pain in my heart so constant, 3 that I could wish myself actually under God's curse and separated from the Messiah, if it would help my brothers, my own flesh and blood, 4 the people of Isra'el! They were made God's children, the Sh'khinah has been with them, the covenants are theirs, likewise the giving of the Torah, the Temple service and the promises; 5 the Patriarchs are theirs; and from them, as far as his physical descent is concerned, came the Messiah, who is over all. Praised be ADONAI for ever! Amen. 6 But the present condition of Isra'el does not mean that the Word of God has failed. For not everyone from Isra'el is truly part of Isra'el; 7 indeed, not all the descendants are seed of Avraham; rather, "What is to be called your 'seed' will be in Yitz'chak." 8 In other words, it is not the physical children who are children of God, but the children the promise refers to who are considered seed. 9 For this is what the promise said: "At the time set, I will come; and Sarah will have a son." 10 And even more to the point is the case of Rivkah; for both her children were conceived in a single act with Yitz'chak, our father; 11 and before they were born, before they had done anything at all, either good or bad (so that God's plan might remain a matter of his sovereign choice, not dependent on what they did, but on God, who does the calling), 12 it was said to her, "The older will serve the younger."a 13 This accords with where it is written, "Ya'akov I loved, but Esav I hated." 14 So are we to say, "It is unjust for God to do this"? Heaven forbid! 15 For to MOSHE he says, "I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, and I will pity whom I pity." 16 Thus it doesn't depend on human desires or efforts, but on God, who has mercy. 17 For the Tanakh says to Pharaoh, "It is for this very reason that I raised you up, so that in connection with you I might demonstrate my power, so that my name might be known throughout the world." 18 So then, he has mercy on whom he wants, and he hardens whom he wants. 19 But you will say to me, "Then why does he still find fault with us? After all, who resists his will?" 20 Who are you, a mere human being, to talk back to God? Will what is formed say to him who formed it, "Why did you make me this way?"e 21 Or has the potter no right to make from a given lump of clay this pot for honorable use and that one for dishonorable? 22 Now what if God, even though he was quite willing to demonstrate his anger and make known his power, patiently put up with people who deserved punishment and were ripe for destruction? 23 What if he did this in order to make known the riches of his glory to those who are the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory - 24 that is, to us, whom he called not only from among the Jews but also from among the Gentiles? 25 As indeed he says in Hoshea, "Those who were not my people I will call my people; her who was not loved I will call loved; 26 and in the very place where they were told, 'You are not my people,' there they will be called sons of the living God!" 27 But esha'yahu, referring to Isra'el, cries out, "Even if the number of people in Isra'el is as large as the number of grains of sand by the sea, only a remnant will be saved. 28 For ADONAI will fulfill his word on the earth with certainty and without delay." 29 Also, as Yesha'yahu said earlier, "If ADONAI-Tzva'ot had not left us a seed, we would have become like S'dom, we would have resembled 'Amora." 30 So, what are we to say? This: that Gentiles, even though they were not striving for righteousness, have obtained righteousness; but it is a righteousness grounded in trusting! 31 However, Isra'el, even though they kept pursuing a Torah that offers righteousness, did not reach what the Torah offers. 32 Why? Because they did not pursue righteousness as being grounded in trusting but as if it were grounded in doing legalistic works. They stumbled over the stone that makes people stumble.i 33 As the Tanakh puts it, "Look, I am laying in Tziyon a stone that will make people stumble, a rock that will trip them up. But he who rests his trust on it will not be humiliated." (Romans 9) The Complete Jewish Bible Many Jews are blinded but the day will come when they shall see Messiah with the wounds in his hands and side and their will be mourning. Then God will restore Israel (Ezekiel 36) BJ Maxwell

From a website that Yoshi, David and Raine have put together at Their attempt to discredit the fulfillments of prophecy by Jesus Christ. I would like to look at their so called refutations and see if their arguments are valid. Here it is: "Messianic Prophecies Refuted (Psalm 8 - Psalm 17) Psa. 8:2...The mouths of babes perfect His praise...Mt. 21:16 (2) O YHWH, our Lord, how glorious is Thy name in all the earth! Whose majesty is rehearsed above the heavens. (3) Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast Thou founded strength, because of Thine adversaries; that Thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger. Not focusing on the point that the phrase "perfected his praise" is NOT in the Hebrew, but in another translation (an ancient Greek translation), is this messianic verse? Not at all! This is a song of praise not a prophecy. It simply states that YHWH uses the weak things to confound the strong, like the way he chose Israel (Deut 7:7) and David, the youngest son of Jesse (1 Sam 16). The most glorious battles come when the weak, due the strength of YHWH, over come the mighty nations. Posted by amenyahu on Tuesday, April 20 @ 02:13:27 CDT (35 reads) (Read More... | 4193 bytes more | comments? | Score: 4.5)"


bj responds: Firstly, I don't think the Jesus said that this was a fulfillment of a messianic prophecy. Even David admits that the verse in Psalm 8, 'simply states that YHWH uses the weak things to confound the strong' Since we can both agree on that there is no need to squabble over this since Jesus who came riding in on a donkey (Zechariah 9:9; Matt. 21), as predicted and pointed out to his enemies that babes were praising him while his detractors were near. Since Jesus is God this passage in Psalm eight applies. Now the statement by David the skeptic that the phrase, 'perfected his praise' is not in the Hebrew needs to be established by the majority of scholars. I don't accept a minority translation any more than I would accept the NWT by the Jehovah's Witnesses. If we go to the psalm in question we find out something interesting when we read the whole chapter, not just one verse. "How glorious is your name throughout the earth! The fame of your majesty spreads even above the heavens! 2 From the mouths of babies and infants at the breast you established strength because of your foes, in order that you might silence the enemy and the avenger. Jesus quotes this, "But when the head cohanim and Torah-teachers saw the wonderful things he was doing, and the children crying out in the Temple, "Please deliver us!" to the Son of David, they were furious. 16 They said to him, "Do you hear what they're saying?" Yeshua replied, "Of course! Haven't you ever read, `From the mouth of children and infants you have prepared praise for yourself'?" 17 With that, he left them and went outside the city to Beit-Anyah, where he spent the night." (Matthew 21, Ibid) There is no problem with this being quoted by Christ since quoting scripture is something we should all do and because Jesus is God in the flesh. The Psalm continues, "When I look at your heavens, the work of your fingers, the moon and stars that you set in place - 4 what are mere mortals, that you concern yourself with them; humans, that you watch over them with such care? 5 You made him but little LOWER THAN THE ANGELS, you crowned him with glory and honor, 6 you had him rule what your hands made, you put everything under his feet - This is specifically speaking of Jesus. If we look in Hebrews it says, " For it was not to angels that God subjected the 'olam haba -which is what we are talking about. 6 And there is a place where someone has given this solemn testimony: "What is mere man, that you concern yourself with him? or the son of man, that you watch over him with such care? 7 You made him a LITTLE LOWER THAN THE ANGELS, you crowned him with glory and honor, 8 you put everything in subjection under his feet." In subjecting everything to him, he left nothing unsubjected to him. However, at present, we don't see everything subjected to him - at least, not yet. 9 But we do see Yeshua - who indeed was made for a little while lower than the angels - now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by God's grace he might taste death for all humanity." (Hebrews 2, The Complete Jewish Bible) And finally the rest of the psalm, "sheep and oxen, all of them, also the animals in the wilds, 8 the birds in the air, the fish in the sea, whatever passes through the paths of the seas. 9 ADONAI! Our Lord! How glorious is your name throughout the earth!" (Psalm 8, The Complete Jewish Translation) BJ


Here is the next one that you can find by going to their site at: <> Amenyahu/David says, "Psa. 16:10...Was not to see corruption...Acts 2:31 Psa. 16:9-11...Was to arise from the dead...Jn. 20:9 Psalm 16:8-11 I have set YHWH always before me; surely He is at my right hand, I shall not be moved. Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory rejoiceth; my flesh also dwelleth in safety; For Thou wilt not abandon my soul to the nether-world; neither wilt Thou suffer Thy godly one to see the pit. Thou makest me to know the path of life; in Thy presence is fulness of joy, in Thy right hand bliss for evermore. Is this a messianic text? Not likely, since the simplest way of looking at the whole psalm is that it is from David and he is talking about himself. It can be taken as David's hope of deliverance and restoration in his life, and seeing verse 10 as poetry and figurative, or it could speak of David's hope in a resurrection. If we take the latter, that is not fulfilled at all. David is still dead. Can it speak about Yeshua? Hmm Let's see. In the second verse we have the writer saying, "You are my Lord, I have no good but in thee". That would be kind of troubling to the idea of Yeshua being YHWH. Is YHWH saying, "I have no good but in thee"? Seems like nonsense. Also, did Yeshua not know the path of life? Didn't Yeshua know everything (apart from his own second coming, Matt 24:36)? Maybe he got lost somewhere. This psalm is the words of the writer, most likely David, not someone else. David hasn't resurrected yet, so this prophecy is unfulfilled. -----------------------------------------------------------


bj responds: Lets look at the whole story rather than an isolated verse. It says, "25 For David says this about him: 'I saw ADONAI always before me, for he is at my right hand, so that I will not be shaken. 26 For this reason, my heart was glad; and my tongue rejoiced; and now my body too will live on in the certain hope 27 that you will not abandon me to Sh'ol or let your Holy One see decay. 28 You have made known to me the ways of life; you will fill me with joy by your presence.' 29 "Brothers, I know I can say to you frankly that the patriarch David died and was buried - HIS TOMB IS WITH US TO THIS DAY. 30 Therefore, since he was a prophet and knew that God had sworn an oath to him that one of his descendants would sit on his throne, 31 he was speaking in advance about the resurrection of the Messiah, that it was he who was not abandoned in Sh'ol and whose FLESH DID NOT SEE DECAY. 32 God raised up this Yeshua! And we are all witnesses of it! 33 "Moreover, he has been exalted to the right hand of God; has received from the Father what he promised, namely, the Ruach HaKodesh; and has poured out this gift, which you are both seeing and hearing. 34 For David did not ascend into heaven. But he says, 35 'ADONAI said to my Lord, "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet."' 36 Therefore, let the whole house of Isra'el know beyond doubt that God has made him both Lord and Messiah - this Yeshua, whom you executed on a stake!" (Acts 2, The Complete Jewish Bible) Here David the skeptic and Peter agree, David is still in his grave. So the logical conclusion is that his body has seen decay. So this prophecy logically applies to someone else. Jesus rose from the dead, before his body saw corruption. Even David the skeptic admits that David the King hasn't seen the resurrection so he logically has seen corruption and decay. David says, "Can it speak about Yeshua? Hmm Let's see. In the second verse we have the writer saying, "You are my Lord, I have no good but in thee". That would be kind of troubling to the idea of Yeshua being YHWH. Is YHWH saying, "I have no good but in thee"? Seems like nonsense."


bj responds: What David the skeptic fails to realize is that in the Triunity of God this is not a problem. In Hebrews it says, "Therefore, O God, your God has anointed you with the oil of joy in preference to your companions"; 10 and, "In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth; heaven is the work of your hands." (Hebrews 1, The Complete Jewish Version) This is a fulfillment of Isaiah 45:23 which says the same. David also says, "Also, did Yeshua not know the path of life? Didn't Yeshua know everything (apart from his own second coming, Matt 24:36)? Maybe he got lost somewhere." This also is a misunderstanding of the incarnation of Christ. To answer his question all we need to do is read Philippians 2:5-11) Messiah emptied Himself and submitted to the Father. BJ