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Christianity Under Fire

So Deep A Child Could Understand
Study In Acts
Jesus In Genesis
Behemoth, Leviathan And Dragons, Oh My!
The Foolish Man's Guide To Confounding The Wise
A Defense of Individual Election unto Salvation & Critique of Absolute Corporate Election?
Group Think Or Whosoever Will Pt. 3
Paul's Purpose At Athens: Becoming All Things To All People
Personhood And Free Will
Scriptures Calvinist's Misinterpret
Resistance Is Futile!
You're a Hopeless Replacement Theologian If You:
Rightly Dividing the Word of Truth
You Know You're a Preterist if: Part 2
Are You Thankful For What You Have?
Top Ten Signs You Are a Fundamentalist Christian?
Getting Involved With Coffeehouse Ministry
A Few of My Projects
Next Subject
A Year in the Life
Maxwell's Musings
Is the Church, 'The Elect'?
Pope Apologizes For Telling the Truth
Catholic Catechism Paves the Way For Evolution
You Are A Hopeless Liberal If You:
Clean Slate
Three Column Chart
Ultra Dispensationalism: Scriptural or Not?
Group Think or Whosoever Will?
Chronological Chart of New Testament
You Might Be A Closet Dispie If:
Body of Christ versus Israel
The Mark of the Beast: Is it Literal?
You Know You're A Preterist If:
You Know You're a Preterist if: Part Three
The Comings of Christ: The How, When and Where
Groupthink and Cliques in the Church
Focus on the Family or on God
Cult Aware
Open Door Fellowship OR Come As We Are Ministries?
Transubstantiation or Unsubstantiated: If The Plain Sense Makes Sense...
DaVinci Code: Was Christ's Divinity and the Bible invented at the Council of Nicea?
Plain Sense Interpretation/P'shat: Christs Comings
Isaiah 53: Human Sacrifice?
Isaiah 53: Christ Has Risen!!
Who Hath Believed Our Report?
Isaiah 53: Christ Our Passover Lamb
Isaiah 53: Messianic Prophecies Refuted?
Chart comparing Israel to Messiah
Isaiah 53: The Suffering Messiah
Bible Chart: Does the Bible conflict on Salvation Messages?
Christs Coming and Time Gaps
Got Charts!
Are There Two Programs?
When Did the Church Begin?
When Did the Church Begin Pt. 2
Is America Cursed?
How and Why Christianity is Under Fire
Was Mary a Perpetual Virgin?
Tribulation or Jacob's Trouble?
Jewish Wannabes and the Holidays
Christmas Under Fire: When Christians Attack
Is Celebrating Christmas Scriptural?
Was Iraq a Just War?
Category 7: The End of the World
If It Believes, Then Waddles and Quacks like a Christian it is a....
Why Homosexuality Should Be Confronted and Exposed
The Doctrine Of Eternal Security-Can You Lose Your Salvation?
Does the Soul Sleep?
Did Jews Kill Jesus?...Hear What Some Jews Have to Say
Some Unscriptural Teachings of the Catholic Church
Arguments That Catholics Use
Pantribulationism: Are There Two Programs Going On?
Before and After
Pantribulationism: What A Day That Will Be!!!!
Definite Article Theology: The Way
Pantribulationism: Extrabiblical Nonsense
My Old Ship, the USS Shreveport Assisting Hurricane Victims
Pantribulationism: Should I Stay or Should I Go?
Trinity of God and Trichotomy of man: Definite Article Theology
Definite Article Theology
Pantribulationism: Blessed Hope and Glorious Appearing
Pantribulationism: The Departure
Pantribulationism: It will all pan out in the end
Straining Out Gnats, Majoring on the Minors
Jewish Wannabes and Eschaholics
When Jewish Wannabes Attack What They Don't Understand
How Jewish Wannabes Attack and How to Identify Them
Historical Method and Homosexuality
If the Plain Sense Makes Sense: Christ's Coming
If the Plain Sense Makes Sense: Evolution
The Silliness of Jack Chick
Inspirational and Patriotic Songs
Communism and Islam -vs- the Faith of America's Founding Fathers
Bridging the Generation Gap
Wrongly Dividing the Word of Truth
Let's Worship the Lord
Faith Under Fire Television Show and Website
Faith Under Fire/Do We Worship the Same God?
Arrogant or Convinced?
Warning Signs of Dispensationalism?
Good News: How To Fight Terrorism
Prophecies Yet To Be Fulfilled: Zechariah 12:10-14
Are You Happy?
When Jewish Wannabes Attack the Bible
Why Jewish Wannabes Attack
The Masters List
You're A Hopeless ....
Preterism Versus Dispensationalism
What's Love Got To Do With It?
When Jewish Wannabes Attack!
Preterism and Calvinism?
Who Do Men Say That I Am?
Signs You Are Doing Something Right
Ivory Tower Theologians and more about me
Satan the Counterfeiter
Saved By Race or By Grace?
Wanna Know Some Secrets?
Distortions of the Resurrection
Apostles Today?
Message and Ministry of Paul compared to the twelve
Maxwell House...Good For Your Desktop
The Feminization of Christianity
Absurd World Views
Religion versus Relationship
The Mysteries Revealed
Replacement Theology
How did the Tribes and Books get Lost?
Catholics, Cliques and Cults
New Age Movement
Should Christians Observe the Sabbath?
The Power of One
Be Thankful
Group Think and the Jew
You Must Be Born Again!!
Tribute to a Friend
Who's That Babe in the Manger: Does it matter
President Bush and the Movie: Unbreakable
Having a Form of Godliness
The Natural Supernatural Connection
Spiritually Challenged Skeptics
Speaking or Praying to the Dead
Eternally Insecure?
The Preterist's False Hope
Apostolic Succession Catholic Style
Predestination or Free Will
The Foolish Confounding the Wise
About Me
Scripture Twisting: Reading into the text
Scripture Twisting: The Figurative Fallacy
So Deep A Child Could Understand
The Apostle Paul
About Us
Requirements For Messiah
Small Groups or the Purpose Driven Church?
Mile High Ministries or Miles Apart Ministries
The Omnipresence and Incarnation of God
Is Jesus the Messiah?
Extrabiblical Nonsense
Blank Page
Is Baptism necessary for Salvation?
Focus on the Family?
Motherhood, Fatherhood or Discipleship?
The Watchtower and Jehovah's Witnesses
What is Love
That They May Be One
Suffering Servant
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And A Child Will Lead Them

If you haven't read the previous messages entitled, the 'message and ministry of Paul compared to the twelve' then you ought to.

It will help you understand the following message.

Too many people have labeled me a dispie without realizing how I differ from the hyper dispies.

The following message in a continuation of the comparison of the message and ministry of Paul to the twelve.

In this message I will contrast the message of Paul to the twelve.

Here it is:

Have you ever pondered something so long and hard and considered every aspect of it so long that it becomes simple again,coming full circle and being so simple a child could understand it, at least in the final conclusion?

This has happened to me before and has happened to me again.

If you are a girly man and cannot follow what I am about to say, then read the last part of the message and that will suffice. Then what I say in this message might make sense to you. You will be glad you
did, unless you are Catholic,Adventist, or Legalistic Messianic and then this might rattle your cage too much.

Not all Messianics are legalistic, just some.

Notice the CAPS in this message.

It seems I have been blessed with a more specific way of
communicating the gospel than before.

I have pondered Dispensationalism for years, using my bible and a book called 'Things That Differ'. This is an online book that I sometimes quote from.

Through looking at all sides, and much contemplation of my own, I have been given a revelation of sorts that I think gives me a more complete and accurate understanding of the scriptures.

I don't believe that faith in the death of Christ/Messiah for salvation was preached until Paul.

I also don't think that Going unto the Gentiles with the gospel of reconciliation was done until Paul,(2 Corinthians 5), until then it was Jewish and though we had Jewish assemblies in the OT, the gospels
and the early part of the book of Acts, The Mystery was not revealed or proclaimed to the Gentiles until Paul (Galatians 2:9; Colossians 1:26,27)

I don't believe that the different dispensations are like boxes laid side by side and separate from each other.

They are more like interlocking boxes that might form boxes where they connect but they are not totally separate.

I have always differed with the dispies on this.

The dispensations complement each other.

I also disagree with the hyper dispies that water baptism and the gifts are no longer in effect. I also have always disagreed with them on this.

Now by seeing these two contrasts together I think I have had a kind of revelation that has helped me to understand things like the contradictory salvation messages in the scriptures, the contrasts of
the twelve's ministry to Paul's, etc.

I'm not going to tell you the conclusion yet but remember, it is so deep that a child could understand it.

Some things I could not completely answer with classic dispensationalism were:

Why did Jesus and Peter speak of baptism for salvation only ONE time each? (Mark 16; Acts 2:38)

Why did the twelve insist on going to the Jews while Paul went to the Gentiles? (Ga. 2:9)

I had some questions apart from Dispensationalism and they are:

Why do Catholics have Jesus still on the cross?

Why are Catholics so Jewish in their behaviour?

Why do stores charge you for a whole bag of potato chips when the bag is only half full?

Sorry, I got sidetracked on that one.

Why do Peter and Paul seem to look at the cross differently?

Peter offers the cross as a condemnation to the Jews:

36 Therefore let all the HOUSE OF ISRAEL know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, REPENT, AND BE BAPTIZED/WASHED every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the REMISSION/FORGIVENESS
OF SINS, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2)

Paul offers the cross as salvation:

17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. (1 Corinthians 1)


1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached
unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died FOR OUR SINS according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to
the scriptures:
5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen
7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles. 8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.
9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But BY THE GRACE OF GOD I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me. (1 Corinthians 15)

Why is the cross presented two ways here.

One way by Peter another by Paul.

Why is baptism mentioned for salvation after the the sin of the Jews, i.e. the crucifixion of Christ?

"For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the JEWS: 15 WHO BOTH KILLED THE LORD JESUS, AND THEIR OWN PROPHETS, AND HAVE PERSECUTED US; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:
16 FORBIDDING US TO SPEAK TO THE GENTILES THAT THEY MIGHT BE SAVED, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the
uttermost." (1 Thess. 2)

Many Jews were self righteous (Romans 10), but after the killing of John the Baptist, Jesus and Stephen, they demonstrated that they were
no better than the Gentile.

God had to conclude all in unbelief to have mercy on all. (Romans 11:32)

I have benefitted greatly from studying Dispensationalism. However, like I said earlier I don't agree with everything.

I don't believe that there were many different gospels through biblical history, I do believe that each successive time the particular good news was preached, it built on, or got more specific and more closer to the 'whole counsel of God' on the subject.

The truth is that the good news of the kingdom (Matthew 24:14) that Jesus and Peter preached was only to the Jews and was NOT the 'gospel/good news of the grace of God.' to all. Though it was
God's grace, the cross was offered to the JEWS as something to demonstrate their guilt. (Acts 2)

It wasn't until Paul that the mystery was revealed to Jew and Gentile alike, and that is 'we (Jew and Gentile), are saved by Grace through faith...(Ephesians 2:8), because of the cross.

The Jews had some repenting to do (Acts 2:38;1 Thess. 2).

"Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: 23
Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, YE HAVE TAKEN, and by wicked hands HAVE CRUCIFIED AND SLAIN:...
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. (Acts 2)

"For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the JEWS: 15 WHO BOTH KILLED THE LORD JESUS, AND THEIR OWN PROPHETS, AND HAVE PERSECUTED US; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:
16 FORBIDDING US TO SPEAK TO THE GENTILES THAT THEY MIGHT BE SAVED, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the
uttermost." (1 Thess. 2)

The Jews are blamed here. The cross is offered as a condemnation, so as to 'conclude all in unbelief'.

In fact the kingdom was delayed because of the continued rejection of Messiah by the Jews. (Romans 11:24-27)

To be taken up again, in the end when 'the fulness of the Gentiles are come in.' (Romans 11:24-27)

'Christ died for us according to the scriptures.'

If we look at the OT scriptures we see that the death of Christ or the sacrifice of the Lamb of God was never offered as a means of salvation but rather pointing to Israel's guilt.

It wasn't until Paul that the cross was offered as the way to salvation. (1 Corinthians 15)

Why is this and why should you care?

God had to conclude ALL in unbelief, so that he could have mercy on all. (Romans 11)

The Jews had to be shown that they were guilty of the body and blood of Jesus Christ and were no better than the Gentiles.

Christ died because of and for our sins.

Christ dying because of our sins was the first part of the NT, Christ dying for our sins was the second part.

Why do Catholics still have Jesus on the cross?

Because despite what they might say, they can only see that Christ died because of our sins and not also FOR our sins, for our salvation.

They are still guilty, trying to make things right through baptism, the sacraments, purgatory. All these things were what the OT Jews did
to do penance (Acts 2:38) because of their guilt.

Many religious groups still have Jesus on the cross in their hearts.

It is time for the whole counsel of God.

So what is the truth that can make sense of the different salvation messages in the bible, the contrasting ministries of the twelve with Paul?

It is this:

"Christ died for/and because of our sins " (1 Corinthians 15)

See, it is so deep that a child can understand it.

Now when the body of Christ is raptured, the messianic movement will endure Jacob's Trouble and continue what was delayed in the gospels.

You might ask, will the guilt of the Jews still be the purpose of the Tribulation, as it was in the gospel accounts and the first part of Acts?

Well let's take a look. Zechariah talks about the second coming of Christ.

It says, 'And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: AND THEY SHALL LOOK UPON ME WHOM THEY HAVE PIERCED, and THEY SHALL
MOURN FOR HIM, AS ONE MOURNETH FOR HIS ONLY SON, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
11 In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.' (Zechariah 12)

So you see that even in the end, the Jews (12 tribes, not two or ten), will acknowledge Israel's guilt and will mourn.

And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart; 13 The family of the house of
Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart; 14 All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart.... (Zechariah 12)

6 And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands?

Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends. (Zechariah 13)

bj max