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Christianity Under Fire

Requirements For Messiah
Study In Acts
Jesus In Genesis
Behemoth, Leviathan And Dragons, Oh My!
The Foolish Man's Guide To Confounding The Wise
A Defense of Individual Election unto Salvation & Critique of Absolute Corporate Election?
Group Think Or Whosoever Will Pt. 3
Paul's Purpose At Athens: Becoming All Things To All People
Personhood And Free Will
Scriptures Calvinist's Misinterpret
Resistance Is Futile!
You're a Hopeless Replacement Theologian If You:
Rightly Dividing the Word of Truth
You Know You're a Preterist if: Part 2
Are You Thankful For What You Have?
Top Ten Signs You Are a Fundamentalist Christian?
Getting Involved With Coffeehouse Ministry
A Few of My Projects
Next Subject
A Year in the Life
Maxwell's Musings
Is the Church, 'The Elect'?
Pope Apologizes For Telling the Truth
Catholic Catechism Paves the Way For Evolution
You Are A Hopeless Liberal If You:
Clean Slate
Three Column Chart
Ultra Dispensationalism: Scriptural or Not?
Group Think or Whosoever Will?
Chronological Chart of New Testament
You Might Be A Closet Dispie If:
Body of Christ versus Israel
The Mark of the Beast: Is it Literal?
You Know You're A Preterist If:
You Know You're a Preterist if: Part Three
The Comings of Christ: The How, When and Where
Groupthink and Cliques in the Church
Focus on the Family or on God
Cult Aware
Open Door Fellowship OR Come As We Are Ministries?
Transubstantiation or Unsubstantiated: If The Plain Sense Makes Sense...
DaVinci Code: Was Christ's Divinity and the Bible invented at the Council of Nicea?
Plain Sense Interpretation/P'shat: Christs Comings
Isaiah 53: Human Sacrifice?
Isaiah 53: Christ Has Risen!!
Who Hath Believed Our Report?
Isaiah 53: Christ Our Passover Lamb
Isaiah 53: Messianic Prophecies Refuted?
Chart comparing Israel to Messiah
Isaiah 53: The Suffering Messiah
Bible Chart: Does the Bible conflict on Salvation Messages?
Christs Coming and Time Gaps
Got Charts!
Are There Two Programs?
When Did the Church Begin?
When Did the Church Begin Pt. 2
Is America Cursed?
How and Why Christianity is Under Fire
Was Mary a Perpetual Virgin?
Tribulation or Jacob's Trouble?
Jewish Wannabes and the Holidays
Christmas Under Fire: When Christians Attack
Is Celebrating Christmas Scriptural?
Was Iraq a Just War?
Category 7: The End of the World
If It Believes, Then Waddles and Quacks like a Christian it is a....
Why Homosexuality Should Be Confronted and Exposed
The Doctrine Of Eternal Security-Can You Lose Your Salvation?
Does the Soul Sleep?
Did Jews Kill Jesus?...Hear What Some Jews Have to Say
Some Unscriptural Teachings of the Catholic Church
Arguments That Catholics Use
Pantribulationism: Are There Two Programs Going On?
Before and After
Pantribulationism: What A Day That Will Be!!!!
Definite Article Theology: The Way
Pantribulationism: Extrabiblical Nonsense
My Old Ship, the USS Shreveport Assisting Hurricane Victims
Pantribulationism: Should I Stay or Should I Go?
Trinity of God and Trichotomy of man: Definite Article Theology
Definite Article Theology
Pantribulationism: Blessed Hope and Glorious Appearing
Pantribulationism: The Departure
Pantribulationism: It will all pan out in the end
Straining Out Gnats, Majoring on the Minors
Jewish Wannabes and Eschaholics
When Jewish Wannabes Attack What They Don't Understand
How Jewish Wannabes Attack and How to Identify Them
Historical Method and Homosexuality
If the Plain Sense Makes Sense: Christ's Coming
If the Plain Sense Makes Sense: Evolution
The Silliness of Jack Chick
Inspirational and Patriotic Songs
Communism and Islam -vs- the Faith of America's Founding Fathers
Bridging the Generation Gap
Wrongly Dividing the Word of Truth
Let's Worship the Lord
Faith Under Fire Television Show and Website
Faith Under Fire/Do We Worship the Same God?
Arrogant or Convinced?
Warning Signs of Dispensationalism?
Good News: How To Fight Terrorism
Prophecies Yet To Be Fulfilled: Zechariah 12:10-14
Are You Happy?
When Jewish Wannabes Attack the Bible
Why Jewish Wannabes Attack
The Masters List
You're A Hopeless ....
Preterism Versus Dispensationalism
What's Love Got To Do With It?
When Jewish Wannabes Attack!
Preterism and Calvinism?
Who Do Men Say That I Am?
Signs You Are Doing Something Right
Ivory Tower Theologians and more about me
Satan the Counterfeiter
Saved By Race or By Grace?
Wanna Know Some Secrets?
Distortions of the Resurrection
Apostles Today?
Message and Ministry of Paul compared to the twelve
Maxwell House...Good For Your Desktop
The Feminization of Christianity
Absurd World Views
Religion versus Relationship
The Mysteries Revealed
Replacement Theology
How did the Tribes and Books get Lost?
Catholics, Cliques and Cults
New Age Movement
Should Christians Observe the Sabbath?
The Power of One
Be Thankful
Group Think and the Jew
You Must Be Born Again!!
Tribute to a Friend
Who's That Babe in the Manger: Does it matter
President Bush and the Movie: Unbreakable
Having a Form of Godliness
The Natural Supernatural Connection
Spiritually Challenged Skeptics
Speaking or Praying to the Dead
Eternally Insecure?
The Preterist's False Hope
Apostolic Succession Catholic Style
Predestination or Free Will
The Foolish Confounding the Wise
About Me
Scripture Twisting: Reading into the text
Scripture Twisting: The Figurative Fallacy
So Deep A Child Could Understand
The Apostle Paul
About Us
Requirements For Messiah
Small Groups or the Purpose Driven Church?
Mile High Ministries or Miles Apart Ministries
The Omnipresence and Incarnation of God
Is Jesus the Messiah?
Extrabiblical Nonsense
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Is Baptism necessary for Salvation?
Focus on the Family?
Motherhood, Fatherhood or Discipleship?
The Watchtower and Jehovah's Witnesses
What is Love
That They May Be One
Suffering Servant
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The Verses offered below are what those that believe the Old Testament/Tanakh but reject Jesus as the Messiah look for in Messiah.

What is noteworthy is that many want to believe the scriptures regarding the reigning Messiah but reject the suffering Messiah that was cut off (Isaiah 53; Daniel 9:26)



Two Messiah Theory

The first thing that I want to mention is that Isaiah 53 wasn't brought up by either of these skeptics.

This is an important point to note.

What if It can be shown that the suffering servant mentioned in Isaiah 53 is speaking of Messiah?

Then the Jews would have the dillema of having to reconcile the suffering Messiah with the reigning Messiah.

Rabbi's have been divided on this subject. Some in the past have come up with the theory of Two Different Messiah's

Other Rabbi's have even gone so far as saying Messiah has already come and was Hezekiah.

Quote from Talmud: "820. R. Johanan b. Zakkai on his deathbed said to his disciples, 'Prepare a seat for Hezekiah, King of Judah, who is coming." Berachoth, 28b"


"821. Hillel II said, 'Israel can expect no Messiah, for we have already enjoyed him in the days of King Hezekiah." (The Talmud for Today, Feinsilver, pg. 235,236)

If the suffering servant is Messiah then it is the sins of all (including the Jews) that He is taking upon himself to death. This would not be the reigning Messiah but another aspect to his return. 

Jews have accused Christians of not taking prophecy in context but then avoid the context of Isaiah 53.

For more on Isaiah 53

If some of the Rabbis have theorized about two different Messiah's let me put out another possibility; Two different comings.

This would then explain why the first time Yeshua fulfilled over three hundred prophecies, a divine feat in itself. Still, the rest will be fulfilled at His second coming.

In other words His first coming was the suffering Messiah that rode into Jerusalem on a donkey, not white horse  (Zechariah 9:9) but the next time he will ride in on a white horse and this time Jerusalem will be mourning (Zechariah 9:10; Zechariah 12:10) 

First criteria offered by skeptic: Ezekiel 37 and 40-47.

This is too broad  to examine, must get him to be more specific.

Isaiah 11: Jesus fulfilled the first part of this prophecy in his first coming.

We need to ask ourselves what scripture can we look at to find out why the rest wasn't fulfilled as well.

Lets go to Isaiah 53:1, which says, "1 Who believes our report? To whom is the arm of ADONAI revealed?  "

Could it be that Messiah was seen as a reigning Messiah but the other aspects of his coming was rejected by Israel.

Could unbelief have anything to do with the two separate comings?

The scripture says that the Gentiles would be blessed through Israel's acceptance of Messiah.

Still, what would happen if Israel actually rejected Messiah, then what would happen.

Firstly, Isaiah 53 would be fulfilled, Secondly there would be a second coming.

Paul stated in one of his sermons that, 'However, Sha'ul and Bar-Nabba answered boldly: "It was necessary that God's word be spoken first to you. But since you are rejecting it and are judging yourselves unworthy of eternal life - why, we're turning to the Goyim! 47 For that is what ADONAI has ordered us to do: 'I have set you as a light for the Goyim, to be for deliverance to the ends of the earth.' " 48 The Gentiles were very happy to hear this. They honored the message about the Lord, and as many as had been appointed to eternal life came to trust. ' (Acts 13:46, The Complete Jewish Bible)

In the OT/Tanakh it says, "I will sow her for me in the land. I will have pity on Lo-Ruchamah [Unpitied]; I will say to Lo-'Ammi [Not-My-People], 'You are my people'; and they will say, 'You are my God.'" (Hosea 2:23)

Jeremiah 23:5,6; "The days are coming," says ADONAI when I will raise a righteous Branch for David. He will reign as king and succeed, he will do what is just and right in the land. 6 In his days Y'hudah will be saved, Isra'el will live in safety, and the name given to him will be ADONAI Tzidkenu [ADONAI our righteousness]. "

Answer: Jesus is the righteous branch. Presently he is ruling as King in the hearts of those that believe Messiah's words. These scriptures says, In his days Y'huda will be saved, Israel will live in safety. This is true and Messiah is God so therefore his days will bring that to pass.

Skeptics often argue that God has not shown them enough evidence. Even Messiah says that if the works ....

This means that God could reveal himself in such a way that makes it indisputable who He is.  However, this would negate faith which is believing then seeing rather than seeing then believing. (John 20:27-31)

However, in the end God will come down and give Israel incontrovertible proof that He is Messiah.

"I will pour out on the house of David and on those living in Yerushalayim a spirit of grace and prayer; and they will look to me, whom they pierced." They will mourn for him as one mourns for an only son; they will be in bitterness on his behalf like the bitterness for a firstborn son." (Zechariah 12:10)

Rather than being happy for the coming of Messiah, Israel will be mourning. Why is that?

Could it be that he was rejected the first time?

Could it be that Messiah wants to reign because people willingly choose to let him reign.

He gave us free wills and he wants us to use them.

However, there will come a day when he will not only be king of the willing he will be king and judge over those that rejected him.

Jeremiah 33:14-16.

Another reference to the righteous branch. It says, "Here, the days are coming," says ADONAI, "when I will fulfill this good promise which I have proclaimed for the house of Isra'el and the house of Y'hudah. 15 When those days come, at that time, I will cause to spring up for David a Branch of Righteousness. He will do what is just and right in the land. 16 When those days come, Y'hudah will be saved, Yerushalayim will live in safety, and the name given to her will be ADONAI Tzidkenu [ADONAI our Righteousness]." " (The Complete Jewish Bible)

Here this is speaking of his second coming in which he will judge those that did not accept him the first time.

The first time he extended his hands and they drove nails through them. The second time they will see Him whom they have pierced and mourn. (Zechariah 12:10)

Zechariah 9:9,10.

The next set of verses offered as one of the requirements of Messiah is in Zechariah which says,

" 9 Rejoice with all your heart, daughter of Tziyon! Shout out loud, daughter of Yerushalayim! Look! Your king is coming to you. He is righteous, and he is victorious. Yet he is humble - he's riding on a donkey, yes, on a lowly donkey's colt. 10 I will banish chariots from Efrayim and war-horses from Yerushalayim." The warrior's bow will be banished, and he will proclaim peace to the nations. He will rule from sea to sea, and from the [Euphrates] River to the ends of the earth. "

Christians know the verse nine happened and we celebrate this on Palm Sunday.

Jesus rode into Jerusalem on a donkey. Even many of the Jews welcomed him with Hosanna, glory to God in the highest.

However, their rejection of his whole message delayed verse ten until later. Now instead of the Gentiles being blessed through Israel's acceptance of Messiah they are being blessed because of Israels rejection. (Romans 11:25)

Their rejection was anticipated in Isaiah 53 which speaks of the suffering servant.

It says, "In fact, it was our diseases he bore, our pains from which he suffered; yet we regarded him as punished, stricken and afflicted by God. 5 But he was wounded because of our crimes, crushed because of our sins; the disciplining that makes us whole fell on him, and by his bruises we are healed. 6 We all, like sheep, went astray; we turned, each one, to his own way; yet ADONAI laid on him the guilt of all of us."

He was wounded because of and for our crimes.

What could be clearer than this.

This makes a contrast between us (Israel included) and the one that suffered because of our sins.

The unbelieving Jews of today want to know why Christ fulfilled only three hundred prophecies but not the ones regarding the reign of messiah. His reigning would be preceded by His suffering. Israel wants a reigning Messiah without a sacrifice.

Ezek 34:23.

23 "'I will raise up one shepherd to be in charge of them, and he will let them feed - my servant David. He will pasture them and be their shepherd. 24 I, ADONAI, will be their God; and my servant DAVID WILL BE PRINCE among them. I, ADONAI, have spoken.

But before David will be Prince among them something else happened that was prophesied in scripture as well.

It is spoken of in Daniel which says, " Then, after the sixty-two weeks, MASCHIACH WILL BE CUT OFF AND HAVE NOTHING. The people of a prince yet to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary, but his end will come with a flood, and desolations are decreed until the war is over. 27 He will make a strong covenant with leaders for one week [of years]. For half of the week he will put a stop to the sacrifice and the grain offering. On the wing of detestable things the desolator will come and continue until the already decreed destruction is poured out on the desolator." (Daniel 9, Ibid)

So why does Israel see the reigning Messiah but not the suffering one and the one that is cut off?

Cannot have one without the other.





Hoshea 3:5.

4 For the people of Isra'el are going to be in seclusion for a long time without a king, prince, sacrifice, standing-stone, ritual vest or household gods. 5 Afterwards, the people of Isra'el will repent and seek ADONAI their God and David their king; they will come trembling to ADONAI and his goodness in the acharit-hayamim.

Micah 5:1 (in christian translations, verse 2)

CRITERIA OF HA MOSHIACH (THE Messiah) ACCORDING TO HEBREW SCRIPUTURE - G-d told His Prophets His requirements:

1. Must be a member of the tribe of Judah (Genesis 49:10

Jesus was


2. Must be a direct descendent of both King David and King Solomon (l Chronicles 17:11; Psalm 89:29-38; Jeremiah 33:17; ll

Samuel 7:12-16; l Chronicles 22:10 and ll Chronicles 7:18)

Jesus was



3. Must gather the Jewish people from exile and return them to
Israel (Isaiah 27:12-13 & 11:12)

Jesus will

4. Must rebuild the Jewish Temple (the 3rd Temple) (Micah 4:1)

Jesus will but after the Jews  are fooled by the Anti Messiah (2 Thessalonians 2)

5. Must bring in "world peace" (Isaiah 2:4; 11:6 & Micah 4:3)

Israel must receive the Prince of Peace first.

6. Must influence the entire world to acknowledge and serve the
One G-d of Israel (Isaiah 11:9; Isaiah 40:5; and Zephaniah 3:9)

He will

All of these criteria for the Messiah are best stated in the book of
Ezekiel, Chapter 37:24-28 - if an individual fails to fulfill even
ONE of these conditions, he cannot be the Jewish Messiah!

24 My servant David will be king over them, and all of them will have one shepherd; they will live by my rulings and keep and observe my regulations. 25 They will live in the land I gave to Ya'akov my servant, where your ancestors lived; they will live there - they, their children, and their grandchildren, forever; and David my servant will be their leader forever. 26 I will make a covenant of peace with them, an everlasting covenant. I will give to them, increase their numbers, and set my sanctuary among them forever. 27 My home will be with them; I will be their God, and they will be my people. 28 The nations will know that I am ADONAI, who sets Isra'el apart as holy, when my sanctuary is with them forever.'" (Ezekiel 37, The Complete Jewish Bible)


According to Christianity, Jesus had no human father. The discussion
of him being the Messiah stops here. Nowhere in Hebrew Scriptures
does the Royal Blood Line continues by adoption. The Jewish
Scriptures clearly state that a person's genealogy and tribal
membership is transmitted exclusively through one's PHYSICAL father (Numbers 1:18 Jeremiah 33:17), Not from someone adopted.

"and, on the first day of the second month, they gathered the whole assembly to state their genealogies by families and clans and recorded the names of all those twenty years old and over, as well as their total numbers." ( Numbers 1:18, The Complete Jewish Bible)

"For this is what ADONAI says: "There will never be cut off from David a man to occupy the throne of the house of Isra'el. (Jeremiah 33:17, Ibid)

Nowhere in Hebrew Scripture does it ever say that during the
Messianic era, HaMoshiach will come back a second time to fulfill
the events that had to occur during his time on Earth.

And nowhere in Hebrew Scriptures does it say that HaMoshiach would
be a deity. Judaism understands the Messiah to be a human being with
no connotation of deity or divinity.

Jewish Scripture just proved G-d's requirements - now it is up the
Christian missionary to prove that G-d was wrong.

Let the Christian missionary list all G-d's prophecies they said
applied to Jesus, or THE MESSIAH. Then compare them to what G-d told His prophets (as outlined above).

During the End of Days, the Messianic Era the prophets told that the
Gentiles: "O Lord, Who are my power and my strength and my refuge in the day of trouble, to You nations will come from the ends of the
earth and say, "Only lies have our fathers handed down to us,
emptiness in which there is nothing of any avail!" (Jeremiah 16.19)

"In those days it will happen that ten men, of all the different
languages of the nations, will take hold, they will take hold of the
corner of the garment of a Jewish man, saying, "Let us go with you,
for we have heard that G-d is with you!' " (Zechariah 8:23)